Solomon Roskin | Israeli Champion & Kettlebell Sport Coach

Welcome to the platform podcast. I'm your host Jordan Kunde-Wright, founder and head coach of the Twin Cities Kettlebell Club And I'm on a mission to help others build sustainable healthy habits I know how hard that can be because I've struggled and succeeded to varying degrees throughout my life But I've lost over a hundred pounds and kept it off for over a decade now the key for me was discovering my passion for lifting weights in Kettlebell Sport on this podcast we'll talk to athletes coaches experts and everyday people about Kettlebell's fitness programming nutrition mindset making an impact and generally striving to grow and leave a legacy of positive change Please join me. I'm in to this episode of the platform podcast. I am really excited to bring on my guest today is Solomon Roskin He is the Israeli Kettlebell Sport Champion and he is a Kettlebell Sport coach and Athlete Solomon. Thank you so much for coming in man. It's great to have you on Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be on the podcast and talking to you about Kettlebell's and Kettlebell's sports really cool. You know, this is a very You could say small community sports would sort of niche many people don't even know that it exists and It's a good opportunity to talk about it. Well, we're gonna change that man We're gonna make it. We're gonna make it at least at least a moderate size community I want it. I want it to grow that's that's really that's really my mission here is Is to grow Kettlebell Sport here in the US and just grow Kettlebell's in general, but I'm really excited I'm really excited to talk to you about it today So let's talk a little bit about your background How did you grow up? Where did you grow up at and where do you live give people who aren't familiar with Israel? A little idea of where you live and where you grew up and kind of what your athletic background was as a kid Okay, so Well, it's a really an integral story. So I was born in Ukraine, Lugansk and Currently, Lugansk is not even part of Ukraine That's a whole strip called Lugansk and Panetsk They're in a civil war with Ukraine. So I was born there, but currently I can't even visit luckily my whole family moved to Kiev and Most of them are also here in Israel. So I don't have to worry about their safety We immigrated from Ukraine to Israel in 2001 and Me and my family have been living here. So I'm fully immigrated fully immersed in the Israeli culture. I could say I'm somewhere in between because I speak Roskin and I speak Hebrew and And culturally you could say I'm sort of a mix about my athletic background. So when when we immigrated my parents divorced and I was mostly alone You know alone at home. So the only thing I can make myself, you know, would be one thing I could prepare myself for Schnitzels or anything I could put in a microwave heated up and then eat. So most of it was, you know Things like bread or pizza stuff like that. I gained some weight as you know an immigrant a new immigrant and Being a little bit overweight. It's not you know, you don't gain popularity with the kids away Yeah, kids are cruel especially to the chubby new kid who immigrated from a different country. I'm sure yeah, yeah, exactly So I kind of took me a while, you know to I get a handle of How to behave, how to talk with people because it's all it wasn't all different even though I was sitting there for a few years still And you get in fights. Did you get in fights as a kid? Oh, man, all the time, you know, it was amazing You know in you in you pray and even before that in Ukraine when before we immigrated, you know kids will tell me I don't even remember this my mom told me because that there were a lot of things about being Jewish or Laughing about my name because my name is Solomon. So Jewish name and It's funny because I'm not even Yeah, and you know, it's funny because I'm not even Jewish my grandfather is Jewish on my father's side and In Judaism your Jewish if your mother is Jewish, so I'm only partially Jewish So it's a crazy mix. It's a crazy mix man So you know to to the Ukrainian Roskin world will be considered Jewish, but here in Israel You know religiously speaking technically speaking. I would not be considered Jewish Yeah, Judaism is really is really interesting in that it's it's both a religion and an ethnicity, right? It's both an ethnic identity and a religious identity and people can convert to Judaism the the religion But they'll there's they still wouldn't be considered a Jew by Ethnicity, right? And it's like and I imagine the dynamics of that in Israel are very Are very strong because you know, obviously there's the heritage there of people who were born who were born Jewish so I'm curious about That how is that dynamic there? It's very difficult like you said, you know, you could You could make geor which means convert to Judaism, but there are different Streams in Judaism and they don't accept each other there are different Different streams like a Hacidim or the or Or you know the liberal ones did different ones Those are what we would call what we would call denominations here in in the United States for Christianity We call denominations of Christianity or at the different the different. Yeah, yes, yes Of Judaism Yeah, exactly someone more strict someone more East up some you know, go to the military and they serve some say that they don't want to and they go to Yisheva's those are Religious meetings where the Learned a Torah and that's basically what they do. So it's a very very complex topic even if you make the keyword It doesn't necessarily mean you be accepted accepted by everyone And also depends on from which country you come from because you have Ashkenazi Jews you have Sephaledim And they have different traditions as well Interesting how was how is it coming from how is it coming from a former Soviet block country is that was that generally? Accepted or was it or was it kind of shun? It was shun. Yeah, so My mom wouldn't call me someone the street you would call me Sasha or something like that. We're Alex Yeah, yeah, it was You know, it was in the 90s, so I suppose people were a little bit more close-minded It might have changed, but I haven't been there for so long and Kids would and kids would make fun of you and you would punch them Yeah, yeah, you know, it's not necessarily you know, it's not necessarily that I'm not sure if the if you could say that they were Lately racist or something because they're kids are just you know kids are stupid They don't really understand if you were fat or if you were ginger They would make fun of you anyway, so you give them a reason and they'll laugh about As a as a chubby kid. I am very aware of that I have the same experience. I got I got made I got made fun of for being for being chubby quite a bit I got in some fights, but not not a ton, but I also didn't I didn't have the cultural dynamics that you did I was in a I was in a small town in the middle of nowhere Illinois that I blended right in with the with the mainstream population So that was that was not a problem, but yeah, I was still chubby Definitely got enough you fights myself for being a fat kid Say yeah, they you know, it's that age. Do you give them a reason to build? They'll find they'll find their own reason of why they don't like you because everyone wants to be cool and what everyone wants to be in the group and popular and stuff like that, you know, divide and conquer sort of thinking like there's you and there's them and there's us But that's okay, you know, like I'm past that and To this day like nobody tells me anything about me being from Ukraine or me not being Jewish, so it's really not a problem Like I haven't experienced any problems with that For four years And yeah, yeah, that regarded things okay But you know, but then when I immigrated you know when I was still young I still had these problems and they had these identity issues where I you know, I know Roskin But I'm not fluent in it. I have some grammar issues and stuff like that and I spoke here. So I was sort of in the mix and that was overweight. So all through school, you know middle school and everything else up until high school. I was overweight until up until I visited my dad back in Ukraine and he told me Listen, okay, you have to start doing something and Do something for your health and that's basically what would be on the path of fitness like I enrolled into this Kapuera class and And then I What class I didn't catch that oh You know this guy the Kapuera Kapuera Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a it's a Brazilian The Dan March the dance fighting the dance like yeah, yeah, okay, that's Brazilian martial art Kapuera. Okay. That's what I thought Yeah, I wasn't I didn't trust I didn't trust that my brain registered the word right and that I remembered correctly, okay Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Actually, that Kapuera really helped me develop flexibility and endurance, you know in that regard I wouldn't say that it's very martial or You know that you can defend yourself using it depends on what oh, yeah, no, no But you know some some guys they swear by Conquering they say that they practice something that's a lot more defensive and aggressive So apparently there are different types of Kapuera as well, but I'm not very familiar with them But anyway, you know this is the start me on the path of fitness and help and that's how I basically began training and last weight And when I started high school I I was finally, you know, a normal weight and I kept training Even after high school here in Israel we have to Go to military so basically it's a mandatory service Well, it used to be three for men and two for women two years for women But I hear they changed it so it now it's so now it's something like two years and eight months for men and Two years and four months for women something like that. Yeah But I serve three, yeah And it was it was very difficult, you know because you're in during this military base in the middle of nowhere and You work every long hours and the thing else and you have to keep well I wanted to keep training because it was very important for me because you know, I used to be overweight and I don't want to go back to But you were afraid you were afraid of digressing back to being out of shape and overweight, right? Yeah, you know, it's something that follows you all the way to, you know, through your life It's something that's it's worth you even though even if you lose that weight and you say you're chill about it and you're cool about You still something in the back of your mind. Yeah, you you still see that you still see the fat kid sometimes when you look in the mirror I at least I know I have that experience there. There are no matter no matter how lean or strong I get the You know, I still I still feel like the chubby kid sometimes Yeah, it may be sometimes it's not being a job job. You know, it's body image issues or you know being worried or afraid of how people Look at you or how they see you Being afraid of your own proportions. Oh, my hands are big enough with my legs are large, you know for myself. I could say in the for instance like my quads are So what developed and but they've always been that you know through Calibur's for the Calibur training. They've grown again more because it's all leg-based You're doing it right Yeah, if you're doing it, but my arts have but you know my my my my coach has very developed Biceps with it for me. It's like my arms that never Your coach is fucking nuts. Let's just let me just put that I would love to get him on the podcast because he does all sorts of crazy shit. He does the balance push-ups He does the iron bending. He does crazy kettlebell juggling. He does Right like he does he does all so he does also I mean he's a he's a machine. He's an incredible shape I watch his I watch his some of his videos that he posted him like I'm like why what compels a person to even try that shit like he's Pushups where he's like got the the hand like Rings on top of beer bottles. Yeah, yeah, how did you even think about this like? Sorry, that's just I know that's a side there. You're your coach. Your coach is a little crazy, but it's it's awesome Yeah, it's totally awesome. Like you mean you mean Michael, Michele Sitchkin. Yes Yeah, yeah, so I used I'll get to it like I used to train with Michele and now I'm training with Ivan Markov Okay, I didn't know you were with you on now. Sorry No, no, it's okay. Yeah, I'll explain how the transition happened. Yeah, please So you know, so it was very important for me throughout this whole period in the high school and military to keep To get myself in because I didn't want to request back into being a fat kid And um, I had this you know, I had this period in my life where I wasn't sure about what I wanted to do like I tried I tried a few different professions and um before I became a coach. I went into goalkeeping So I did accounting for a little while, but I hated it so much man. You know, I Oh wow, I hated it so much. I lasted three months and I'm going to do more like I You know any excuse I could find to get out of office, you know, just both for straw will make myself coffee or tea or whatever I would take it and I would go for a stroll because I really I couldn't I couldn't and um and so I I went through these different professions and um and One of my friends suggested that maybe you should because you're so into sports in fitness. So maybe you should do the instructor's course. So we Um, so you you can't coach people here in this round this year unless you have a Instructors course physical instructor's course and I decided that okay, maybe I should do that And um, I finished it and and started coaching and I tried a few things as well. There was um There was a period where I did some power lifting and one of my friends was a weight lift first So he taught me a little bit about Olympic weight lifting. I also did the Classical Boxing Muay Thai and Krav Maga as well by the way Um, yeah, for a small while I did the classical boxing for for something like two years, but then but then I um came across Calibur's So this is how I met Michael And so I went to Michael's Calibur workshop where it has different exercise and technique and you know, I was so fascinated by this weight We had this at the gym If Calibur's are so popular now, you have them in every gym, you have these different brands, not all of them are competition, not even the hard style Calibur's You have these different weird looking ones and um We actually had completion Calibur's at our gym where I worked and it was so I knew they existed But I didn't know how to use them besides doing a few swings here and there Um, but after Michael's workshop, I was so excited about Calibur's You know, I went on the internet and searched everything I could about it and And this led me to a few different avenues as well And um This uh, so I tried I tried Calibur's for about a year still not on the specific regime We're training program anything else. We just did a few juggling Yeah, a little bit of a juggling other exercises And um here in Israel we have something that's called Hanukkah games So basically it's a Calibur's core competition that allows you athletes to come in and try their strength You know to try and compete in a Calibur sport Uh, usually the weights are much easier so you can Uh, so so you don't have to compete straight with 24 kilograms You can try 16, you can try 12, 10 And uh, and see how you fare Yes So yeah, so it's it was it was great. So I did um, so I did snatch for 10 minutes multi-hand switch With 16 kilo grams I did something like a 210 reps Um, so that was yeah, I was pretty good for first time And um, that was actually my first ever competition because you know as a overweight shy kid Uh, in immigrant like I never competed in school and whenever we had you know football or soccer Whenever we played soccer, I would not participate because I felt you know out of play school And uh, this was special for me to finally, you know, be a little bit more competitive and a little bit more assertive than do something And I was very excited about this opportunity Then Michael came up to me and told me okay, well now let's talk about your sports career and That's basically old again, just like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're ready You already invited me once to his gym and I didn't want to come but you know, it was What wasn't in give a time where until I did where I lived was by was a little bit far off and it was uh No, in American stances that it's not that much of a drive. Maybe it's like 30 minutes That's not really much. I hear people drive a lot more to work even in Four hours. Yeah, depending on what city you live in for sure It's it's not uncommon to have an hour commute. That's actually the average. I think in the US is is an hour commute Although it's changing now with everybody working from home, but uh, yeah But I can understand that's the you know relative relative to Israel that's uh, which is a you know, relatively small country. That's that's a fun and sizable drive You know Yeah, like we're a little bit spoiled in that regard here that we we want everything you know close by and you know It's comfortable that way So a half an hour here and there it adds up into an hour so and only your workout is about an hour or half or an hour and a half so you know Two and a half hours is Concerned amount of time, but Anyway, so I finally decided that I wanted to join this gym and begin training in Calibur's fourth Uh, which which has basically led me on the path of uh, you know, competing and training and coaching Uh, Calibur's fourth and I'm so thankful for this opportunity and you know um What so what you what you're wasn't that you that you started actually training specifically for kettlebell sport competitions How long ago was that? um Did you tell the truth? It wasn't that long ago. Uh, I think it was 2018 2018. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So from so from relative novice to Israeli champion in two years time. That's uh, that's that's pretty impressive Uh, yeah, you know, I was a little bit obsessed about Calibur's like every time no Whenever I had a Spare time or with practice technique or watch videos or look up stuff or um You know Michael would give me advice and I would listen to him and try to implement it um Because I had this mindset of okay my coach tells me to do this thing. I will focus and do it um It's it's um, you know, it's a matter of self-discipline Yeah, well the Calibur sport community here in Israel is very small um to tell the truth So it's not very difficult to become a champion here uh Which is why I'm also very happy to Have competed internationally for the wksf Online cup and I wish it was uh, you know, in Spain, but due to COVID got canceled Yeah Yeah, yeah So You know like lacking the beginning of our conversation that we were talked about, you know, promoting the sport I so I fell in love with the sport it gave me something that other modalities, you know, other lifting modalities wouldn't give me and uh Yeah, let's talk let's talk about that a little bit because because you and I actually have have somewhat similar background as far as the Dabbling in a lot of in a lot of different disciplines. I you know, I was pretty serious about about weight lifting and For a while, but you know, what what is it that you think are the The biggest differences that the kettlebell modality gives you that other modalities do not what what are those What are those things what do you think the the big selling plates are? Yeah, you know, well, I mentioned boxing and I mentioned power lifting as well Uh, and I came from an aesthetic background. So I did a cup wearer. I did summer solts. I did all these kind of You know clips and stuff um There was there was a time where I would you know, I wanted to look better. So I trained for aesthetics and some strength and Then when I went back into boxing into classical boxing. I felt stiffer. So I wasn't you know as agile as As fast as I wanted to get in boxing, you have to react quickly Your punches have to be explosive. You have to be No more and when I started training with cannibals it had this mixture of both strength and endurance and dynamics which In my eyes was the missing components Yeah, absolutely. It definitely it definitely translates and the parallels between boxing Uh, and any any martial sport in particular and and kettlebell sport. I think makes Uh, are great because you know the the thing that I that I always Think about is Boxing is is about managing output in the same way that kettlebell sport is about managing output You need to be explosive but in very brief periods and you need to be smooth and you need to be nimble But you also can't just come out and throw bombs all the time or you're going to gas out You know very very similar kettlebell sport is where it's about managing tension and relaxation pacing yourself Bouts of explosive movement followed by relaxation and energy conservation Exactly. Yes, um, so and not to say that I've been gain strain for good muscle and all And all that stuff because it did it did help me do all that and strength you know strength wise. I Squatted and they lived it so much more than I ever have um before Um up broke a few personal records um, you know Pressing overhead as well So it's really contributed to many different physical aspects And um now with that when I talk about kettlebell sport and I really want to promote this sport online and in Israel is also to get more people involved Because I believe it can help Um also you can also help many people especially now in Uh, you know during COVID because many of us are stuck at home And we're looking for solutions Yeah, absolutely we're designed for this. Yeah, we've already We're used to we're used to working out alone in our basements or in our garages or in our closets We've been we've been doing this we've been doing this for uh for a while already Exactly same same and um so Uh, it's so whenever I post about uh, you know So this thing's meant to you another topic you know when I were at plus about kelp this for the show for example How I do long cycle many people ask me about Uh, the back arch know the back bent with you and doesn't that hurt your back? Yeah, doesn't that yeah, they always ask me doesn't that hurt your back And uh, this is you know, this is some of those things that I want you to spell because this is really an Export and give you strength and can give you flexibility can give you endurance It's a score that has uh, sub-maximal weights so the risk of injury Well, at least from what I've asked uh, you know for the people I've asked and the From what I see it's lower the risk of injuries though, but what lower you can you can still have overuse injuries Which happens and everything in every sport that you do But that's just a matter of you know managing managing tension met in the manager recovery Yeah, absolutely and it's uh It's funny because my my I get that question sometimes as well and a lot of times my my response surprises people Because they're they're like oh, you know, doesn't that hurt your back? How do you not have a bad back? I was like no, I had a bad back before I started doing kettlebells Uh, you know, herniated discs ended my American football career in college You know, I herniated two discs two discs in my lumbar region You know, and if it wasn't for getting into kettlebell training as I as I got older I would not have nearly as strong and healthy of a back as I as I have now I still have to be careful and manage my load But I certainly hurt my hurt my back a lot more doing powerlifting Than I ever did doing kettlebells because like you said sub max sub maximal loads Obviously, you know, when you're squatting 500 pounds the shearing force and the stability required You know, if you have one bad rep you can get into very powerful shearing force very very quickly Well, if I'm doing long cycle with two 24 kilo kettlebells my maximal load there is You know, what 100 and 116 pounds or you know, 106 pounds You know, that's that's an order of magnitude less on the on the force, you know, that's being applied to the body You know, so that's that's why the injury risk is so much lower and people are always surprised to hear that they assume that flexion and extension of the spine is Is going to increase your risk of injury, but it's really you have to be cognizant of the force that's being applied in those ranges of motion The spine is designed to move our bodies are designed to move So You know, I think you had you made the point on a post earlier this week where you're showing This is normal. It's normal to be able to round your back You're supposed to be able to round your back. We're not supposed to stay in that position But you're supposed to be able to round your back and extend your back and flex and twist and all of those things Right, and that's that's actually why I think kettlebell sport helps people with their back is because you are required to move your spine through the ranges of motion That it is designed to be able to move through Right So it's it's it's all about progressive progressive Application of those movements. So yeah, it might hurt if if somebody came to you and you're like, you know Oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm an accountant for example, and I said it a desk for eight hours a day And then you're like, okay, here you go. Here's two 24 kilo kettlebells. Let's let's do jerks Well, yeah, then they might hurt their back because they're not they're not prepped for that But you're not gonna do that You're smarter than that. We're not going to we're not going to just start them at at competition weight It's gonna be progressive overload of those of those principles, right Exactly. It's a matter of exercise being appropriate for the person and And they have to match their goals as well and there are some exercise that are inappropriate, you know even Even those Most popular exercise like the deadlift and the squad They're not necessarily good for everyone. There are some people who You know could potentially hurt their knees or the backs, you know because of issues that they might have had Before attempting those exercise and it's not that these exercises are bad It's just they're not appropriate for that moment for that person and this is something I think that we need to change You know in general in the fitness space because Especially see this with new coaches that think that everything has to be straight your back has to be neutral This has to be neutral that has to be attracted the shoulders to down type of stuff and Like as you've mentioned like our spine is on our bodies are They're designed to move in all these different directions And especially in sports you see this that have leads Move in different directions. I had this um argument actually an Instagram with a person who Uh, I sadly was into a kickbox thing So and he told me about how dangerous the bat bend and calibals what is So well, first of all, of course, they try to explain on the weight distribution thing that basically the weight is distributed in Evenly on on the waist it's supported by the waist and the legs so Lower back at the moment. It's not active um Now never mind that but uh, yeah, you know, I think that's a person who is um fighting You know actually kickboxing is pretty brutal. It's like it's like more time without um without elbows and uh and knees Yeah, if you've ever seen a match, it's pretty brutal. Yeah um And and their bodies moving all different directions and the shock that they absorb and the kicks and the hits and everything else So I thought it was kind of weird that he thought that that was healthy because he talked to me about health But you know if if I have proper technique yeah, yeah, yeah, he talked to me about health This is not a this is not healthy yet. Neither is getting kicked in the head Oh, man I was so surprised. I was so surprised the fire would came up to me and start talking to me about back bend and health Okay, man. Now classical boxing, you know, you haven't you you've seen classical boxing uh Pose right so their upper back is bent the thorax is fine flexed So there's sort of like this crouch Oh I actually do that as part of our warm-up where we put we cover up like we're on the ropes, right when you're lean I call it the rope adope like Ali used to do we cover up put our elbows basically in rack position But with our hands up in front of our face lean back go side to side and we're just working on being able to warm up our spine It's a position that you're gonna be in but it's it's absolutely a position boxers infrequently Yeah, yeah, I'm speaking of, you know, we talk you mentioned something else about a few videos that posted the squats and stuff like that that uh Interesting, you know, interestingly enough you mentioned the valgas and the kneecaving Again, it's like my friend First of all, I don't see what you're talking about the second of all You know in classical boxing you do kneecaving on purpose you like you have to stance where you cave in your knees on purpose so that you will be nimble and flexible, you know, that you move side to side and change directions so again, um I'm referring to this argument of, you know, what is natural movements, you know, what is appropriate movement? What is inappropriate movement like people are afraid of That lifting but then they break their backs lifting a box or you know lifting their children up from the floor So I find that a little bit ridiculous Yeah, I think it's and the thing that drives me crazy I think that the thing that the underlying theme that I see that that kind of connects all of these things That that and it ends up bothering me is people of of varying They they clamp on to one idea and think that that's the truth So they're like oh, you gotta keep your spine neutral right and that that's the thing like oh to keep people safe You gotta keep their spine neutral or you have to control your tension or what it is like well. No, there's there's more than one way to think about things And there is no one right way to move like it's all you have to be able to move and express your athleticism in different ways to be a truly good athlete like if all you can do is One movement in one plane Well, then what's gonna happen when your body is asked to move outside of that plane right or ask to move in it in a different way Well, then you're setting yourself up for injury You know, that's that's when you get hurt, right? It's the the old Chinese saying you know that Bam Bamboo Bamboo is is stronger than oak because oak break oak breaks when the wind blows hard Right me the ability the ability to to flex and move when Outside forces are applied and and absorb them without breaking is is very important right the rigidity is is a problem and This whole concept of neutral spine like people a lot of people don't even understand that neutral is a range, right? It's not it's not a fixed thing you're not going to be able to to lock your spine and your spine It's a bunch. It's a bunch of interconnected articulating joints Like it's designed to to flex to varying degrees depending on what region of the spine you're talking about, right? But it is designed to flex and rotate and and stabilize right You have to you have to understand all of the functions of the anatomy that are supposed to be expressed And you can't focus on just one of them or you're you're doing your athlete to disservice You're doing yourself a disservice and if you get too dogmatic and you're thinking You're you're missing you're missing the opportunity to grow into into a more complete holistic understanding of human movement Exactly, this is why I think it's the point whenever you somewhat the raises an argument He has to be able to articulate that arguments you give the reasons for that argument, you know, just rolling out these phrases so back bend or equals bad it doesn't mean anything So okay, why is it then why is it bad? What if I saw it on Instagram and a guy that said it was a doctor said it was bad Oh yeah, yeah, yeah Great well doctors say whatever the you know whatever whatever they want we'll follow any consideration to If you're an athlete or what do you do in your life or you know, maybe just one doesn't want to bother himself But this doesn't want to take responsibility Like I went to doctors before and it's not that they gave me any better solutions They just told me oh gave them just stop doing what you're doing Well they have and they have a scope of practice and a scope of training and a lens through which they view everything as well Right there exactly you know, so so they're not necessarily the best person like I'm not going to go talk to a doctor about my nutrition Because I know plenty of doctors one of my roommates from college is a doctor and he got literally one One semester of nutrition training. I have more nutrition training than he has he comes to me for advice on how to manage his nutrition You know, and he's a doctor, but people would it people would assume that if I'm giving him advice and somebody else is giving advice They would listen to the doctor and that's not I don't blame people for that But you have to understand scope of training and scope of practice, right? And I wouldn't give I wouldn't prescribe nutrition as a treatment for an issue, right? But I when it comes to sports performance I can certainly I can certainly help you perform And you want to change your body composition I can help with that too But you know, if you've got if you've got another thing on it I'm going to refer you to my friend the doctor if I think you have you know Cancer You know everybody has scope of practice and scope of expertise It's I don't know it's it seems fascinating to me that people can't seem to understand and differentiate Good information from bad information I think it's easier to think in those terms it's easier to think in black and white It's easier to refer to a person who you Idealize or who you consider as an authority figure Instead of you know relying on your own thought process and trying to come at the truth You're right actually and human human beings by evolution and nature are intellectually lazy because we need to be because Could you imagine like if you had to think hard about About how to You had to think hard about how to how to take a shower every time you did it You would you would burn out So our brain naturally looks for shortcuts and the idea of hey doctors doctors are smart They know about the body. So they're the experts. That's a simple intellectual hack, but it's It's It's not accurate unfortunately. They know about their scope of they know about their scope and an area of training But not necessarily everything That's true. That's true so Have you have you encountered have you encountered a lot of a lot of people who are hard-style Challenging you online a lot of the hard-style kettlebell people have you run into have you run into a lot of a lot of people challenging you online Yeah, so I just wanted to get to that So because I've posted many videos of that are caliber sports style and I would you know, it's funny that I have to uh ride sports style and you know And in the header always so that people see and they don't ask me. Oh, why are you doing it like this? So yeah, so it happens a lot that people they see what they do and they didn't ask me okay Then but why do you want to conserve energies because the kettlebell sports want to relax and you don't want to create tension And they ask okay, but why do you want to really relief tension or why what do you swing like that? What do you then turn back like that? So understand that the sport is you know, it's very niche most of the information is in russian The sport comes from russian You you have some places that Translate this information to give this information in english so it's more accessible But it's still it's not as popular as we wanted to be there and aren't that many You know, caliber sport influencers On instagram or youtube. You can refer to there are a few, but I think we need more exposure And so when talking about the idealization actually wanted to mention this as well that um many arts style practitioners refer to Poblet of Suleen As as this authority figure and Actually haven't read this books like I know who the person is. I've seen the video work to a rogan He sounds like an intelligent person and And hard style I believe it's is Another more lifting modality using caliber which is fine and dandy by me And I don't see why our two styles have to necessarily conflict Yeah, that's that's really the thing that that drives me crazy In on either side if if because the larry fed or ankle is just as guilty of this as Yeah Because when when the larry started Here in the us he he would say there's one true way to lift a kettlebell Right, there's one right way there You know, and of course it was his way well povo was was saying the same thing And so of course you divide people into two camps and they're saying no This is the right way to train because you want tension and you want strength do you want to get strong? Well, then this is the right way to do it strong first right? That's what that's the now the name of povo certification is strong first because if you want to get strong This is the way to do it and Valeria saying no the the right way to do it is this because look I'm a world champion I'm a world record holder Valeria, you know, of course is was You know trying to compete for limit, you know for market share and was saying no I'm a world champion I actually know kettlebells I I've done this at the highest level And Pavel was saying I'm doing something different You know, but they ended up dividing that they ended up dividing people into camps and you had a group of people That were like no hard style is the is the the right way to do it and you had the other group of people saying no kettlebell sport is the way to do it. Well, obviously we know hard style in America hard style is way more popular It was really well marketed And and people loved the idea that you know, Pavel marketed himself as as a guy who was like the kettlebell Coach to Roskin spets nets And that that's how it was that's how it was marketed is like oh he he trains the Roskin special forces using kettlebells so he must be he must be an authority and His there's nothing wrong with With the programs that he does and there's nothing wrong with the style Um, it's just it's interesting that it got to be so dogmatic because the two sides were both like no I've got the one right way to do it Instead of instead of being like no, they're both valid approaches So long as you apply them safely and you understand what the goal is because strong first or hard style is going to be superior For developing maximal strength output and and power Uh, faster right you'll get but you'll get that benefit from kettlebell sport training as well But it the adaptation won't happen as fast because that's not the intended goal You'll get better cardiovascular endurance and muscular endurance by doing kettlebell sport training You'll still get stronger and you'll probably put on some muscle But that won't happen as fast as if you were lifting heavier loads for fewer reps and focusing on maximal strength output You know, that's that's really all it comes down to in my opinion is is Different different application for different goals is really Is really all it comes down to and what's your goal and Ultimately, what do you want to do and there's nothing wrong with with training in both styles There are times if I've only got 15 15 20 minutes I might I might bang out a hard style circuit just because I want to I want to get a hard workout in in the time that I have Right now, obviously I could also just do a 10-minute long cycle set and I'd be plenty crushed But But if I'm going to do a 10-minute long cycle set, I'm going to need to warm up for uh, you know, at least 20 30 minutes Yeah You know, but it's it uh I really find it interesting and and disappointing a little bit that we can't get more people to understand that there is no Right or wrong way to use the kettlebell so long as it's safe Uh, and you're moving intelligently you're going to get benefit from it and it's really about Customizing your approach to what your desired output is what what is what is the outcome that you want and then design the program from there It's actually like you said it's marketing and I've mentioned this before and I really think that it all comes down to divide and conquer so you have these two camps allegedly One is better than the other when and in fact, I think it's not true and you'll you will agree with me kelvo sport has different goals different physical adaptations, but so does hardstyle I had uh, I had coaches from kelvo sport also message me saying why do I even compare hardstyle with kelvo sport I had one of those posts that I made an infographic comparing the two modalities and they they told me that it's not even worthy of Mention and yeah, I don't think I don't think that's the case, you know, that's the exact same thinking that I get from the other camp so why So why do I get this from kelvo sport? Yeah, we don't want even acknowledge that it's a thing Yeah, we we don't I think and it's and I think most of the community doesn't and most of them do understand that you can train Either which and you just do whatever you like Yeah, and it's to me to me it's silly because especially like especially in America I can say if if you don't want to acknowledge that most of that most people are only familiar with hardstyle training You're not going to get nearly as many people into kettlebell sport if that's your desired outcome is to grow kettlebell sport Um, you're not gonna you're not gonna get nearly as many people into kettlebell sport If you don't even acknowledge that their entry point into kettlebells as a as a modality has been hardstyle And that's that's really where most people I against like 95% of the people that I've talked to that do kettlebell sport that are American Started in hardstyle or at least were introduced to kettlebells from hardstyle because they weren't even aware that kettlebell sport was a thing And if you're not gonna acknowledge that and meet people where they're at you're gonna turn off a lot of people and you're gonna miss a lot of people Exactly, and you know, it's not that I'm trying to sell sell people in a certain point or coaching or anything else. No, it's that's not my goal like I do this Because it's my passion and I like working with people who share their passion Um, the point is that this is something that is constantly asked about on the internet So I think it's worthy of mention is worthy of dressing because people ask these questions and they want to know. Okay, so what's the difference? Okay, I want to look good. I want to build muscle. I want to lose fat. Look. That's usually what people want Well, why should I do kettlebell sport? It seems really tough. The technique is very complex. So why why should I do this? So I think we need to explain like we need to explain what what's the fun of it? You know, what's the point of it? And You know, just just saying that oh no, this is the one true way and that other modality Whatever its name is Isn't any good that that won't That won't persuade anyone Yeah, you'll get you'll get I mean you'll give some fiercely opposed tribes Exactly. Yeah, you know, but it won't get you know I'm more of a rising tide floats all boats uh kind of person. So So long as you're for kettlebell. I don't care if you want to do hard style or sport Um, and honestly so long as you're so long as you're trying to improve yourself And you want to get more more healthy and more fit. I don't care if you want to do powerlifting Olympic weightlifting crossfit kettlebell sport hard style bike riding. I don't give a shit. You tell me what you want to do And and I'm happy to support you because I want people to be to be healthy and happy and You know to to live the life that they want to live You know if if making you if getting punched in the head is what makes you happy? Great. Let's Be a boxer. Uh, cool. Then the boxer exactly. How can how can I how can I help you be the best boxer you can be right? I don't I don't I don't understand why people are so Are so dogmatic about about the the best way, you know, I think it I think you nailed it earlier light It's a it's a simplification that's easy for people to to understand and Exactly It's instead of instead of understanding the framework of you know There's the triangle that that I'm working from is there are three there are three points on the triangle That we can we can optimize for Performance which is like I want to be the world champion at whatever or I'm going to be the best at the best I can be at my particular discipline is it that is at one peak longevity I want to live forever You know I live as long as I can is the other peak and then aesthetics right those three things are kind of the The opposing ends and you can't optimize for for more than one at a time You can optimize to varying degrees within that triangle and depending on what the goal is You know then then we can design the program from there. So if you tell me you want to lose body fat Great then don't don't complain to me about how much your performance sucks in your workouts And how hard they are because guess what if you're in a 700 calorie deficit your performance is going to suffer Now if you tell me you want to be the best in the world at Kindle Bell Sport then don't complain to me that you're too fat because you need caloric surplus to perform right it like there's You know and if you want to live forever then probably you know Taking steroids and whatever to win the CrossFit games isn't your best approach either And we can cycle between those different those different priorities But you can't optimize for all three at the same time and that's the I think that's the thing that that people Seem to miss out on is they're like well, I want to look good naked I want to perform well and I want to be shredded That's like okay, those are three opposing goals So tell me which of which of those is the most the highest priority right now Because we can we can design for the for the program for one of those three and the other ones will will be less of a priority Exactly, that's right Another point to you know to take across is the body adapts to whatever you throw at it So you've mentioned this earlier or if the triangle the performance were in longevity or aesthetics So it basically adapts to whatever you throw at it you can be the best at everything when it comes to Calibur school or and strong first or even you know powerlifting or Olympic weightlifting I think I think that each modality each lifting modality can help one another But at the end the skills that you develop and the physical adaptations that your body goes through Will narrow his narrow the performance of the body in one specific area There's there's gpp and there's spp right there's specific you know specific programming right that's General physical preparedness and specific physical preparedness and skill acquisition and skill Is going to come into performance and at a certain point Yeah, of course kettlebell sport translates really well to a lot of other things But if you tell me you want to be a great boxer We can do kettlebell sport as a A training modality in your offseason to improve aerobic capacity and improve anaerobic threshold and old and your strength and but at some point We got to get you back in the ring because motherfuckers are going to try and punch you in the face So you need to you need to practice that skill of hit and don't get hit You know because no matter how much no matter how much kettlebell sport training you do If you need to get back in the ring you need to practice that skill because It's not going to help you not get punched in the face if you're not practicing it Yes, yes exactly And it's not to say that you don't develop strength, you know because this name strong first Yeah, in the case that you're developing strength and kilowatt sport is a more of an endurance strength sport It doesn't mean that necessarily that you won't get stronger like I mentioned earlier in the conversation that My squad my bed with my overhead pressing all these numbers increased and I'm very happy with it and I wasn't even training heavy for those lifts, but they increased anyway You just you just recently transitioned from the 24 kilo competition weight to 32 kilo competition weight, which is a little bit insane. I'm not going to lie to you That is a massive jump and I'm super impressed, but you but you've also had some very specific thoughts on pacing and time under tension and What how your mindset shifted when you went up and wait so talk to talk to me a little bit about that now that you've now and and tell Tell people what weight class you compete at so they understand what you're working with relative to your body weight Okay, so last time a computer was 69 kg. So that's about 152 pounds Now I'm something like 70 kg. Yeah, you know, one kill difference. That's not that much Uh, that's a burrito. Yeah, that's a burrito and And two 32 kg that's 64. Yeah, that's more than half of my body So you're working with just just below a one-to-one ratio of body weight To training weight Yeah, yeah, so I was I was going to tell you about how we began training with Marko This is it was actually one of the this was Marko's idea that they would Begin training with two 32 kg because there was no 28 kg in the use early championship um Now the Israeli championship has shifted online so it's an online cup. I was going to compete In long cycle with uh double 32 kg And you know because it's a champion championship you don't you don't have 28 kg 32 and Marko told me well, okay 24 is not interesting anymore. So that's 232 That was basically it And that seems that seems very Roskin to me Oh, yeah 24 is no longer interesting. Let's do 32 Yeah, yeah, no kidding. I'm like, oh, okay, whatever you say coach um At first, but you know, so let me tell you about how you know the whole adaptation thing and how it went So so yeah, you know if it was it was anybody else, you know, if I were the coach and I was working with a client I wouldn't Tell him to jump straight forward to 32 kg unless I was very um Certain in their capabilities You know, you have to be sure because that's quite a jump So At first, you know, Marko told me about how he started training with 32 kg and then how he had only too much to prepare for competitionly Uh, when wanted to participate in because um like in Russia, they Yeah, they either go to the university or go to the army and be wanted to go to a special um You will want to apply as an athlete like As a competitive athlete, so we went to and um applied for this competition To continue to continue training and uh, basically from 24th he jumped to 32 kg as well So he did the same thing, but again, Marko is not lightly different frame than you Yeah, just slightly different frame than you Uh, yeah But again, Marko is huge. He's he's weight class is absolute. It's He's in my weight class and he's a he's a fucking machine He's a fucking machine. That's true. Yeah, he's very impressive Speaking of muscle, you know, building muscle lots that he's also very build He's very tall and he's strength endurance is uh, you know, out of this chart Yeah, he's a freak Yeah, and uh, you know, so quite a difference because I'm a small frame person So at first when they try when I trained with a double to 32 kg Um, you know, I was excited and it was uh, you know, with some of the uh, I was also worried about, you know We trained myself just a little bit when they began training with us But uh, I have this open mind set. It's okay. Well, I will try. I won't think about My day, so I won't think about how many reps I do, you know, because you have this eagle thing going on your back And the back of your head that you save it. Oh, but they want to my best. I want to perform my best But I but I go myself. No, no, okay. This is very heavy. I have to pay attention and um Just try to stay under the belt. So that was basically it Um, it's a very patient very patient approach that I mean, I see you You know on your sets. I'm like man. He's just sitting in the rack for 30 40 50 seconds at a time sometimes because He's just waiting until he's ready to lift the next rep and he's trying to finish the time and I know obviously I know how big of a jump that is for you, but it's still it's it's super impressive to me because just people don't People that don't have never been under the 32s. Maybe don't understand how hard it is to just sit with that much weight on your frame for that long It's not it's not an easy thing to do It feels as though it crushes you seriously. It's like two huge boulders Uh, like sitting on top of your body and you're just trying to sort of balance it out and you know if you're not flexible enough If you don't know how to distribute the weight, it becomes very difficult because then you increase tension in your shoulders Because if you don't rack them properly on your hips, then you're holding them with your Shoulders and arms. So yeah, and I just mean Public service announcement for anybody that's listening do not try this at home Solomon is incredibly flexible and has Very very good technique. So his coach his coach knew that he could make the jump without hurting himself I would not recommend an eight kilo jump for anybody without the close supervision of an experienced coach Yeah progressive overload totally like don't make the jump just don't learn the technique and progress Slowly, you know, like you you'll get there you even even now I say that is I do Yeah, you know, even though I can't go past six rpm If I can do like on one minute intervals six rpm, but then you know after that, it's okay. It's like it's very difficult Um three three three three two four I can manage and like you said like I between each rep I wait like 20 seconds um Yeah, so so I first the the weights felt incredibly heavy So you know everything was heavy Getting under the bells in the elbow jerk dropping them back into rack position. Well, it's Killing yourself, but as time went by like now, would you feel a lot more comfortable with The double 32 kg How have you had to adjust your technique because you meant like you know as you mentioned Dropping from rack or dropping interact from overhead I imagine you've had to adjust your technique going from the 24s to the 32s You probably had to adjust technique a little bit in order to absorb that kind of forest can you talk talk a little bit about that? Yeah, you can't make mistakes with heavier weights, you know Those 32s they did they have no mercy and they mentioned this a couple of times because you have to be very Precess if you're a technique like when I had this instance where I Was doing cable jerks and I did a jerk and dropped it back into rack position and I leaned too much Uh, away So I felt a small tweak, you know in my back So that's something that that can happen if you don't properly distribute the weight like you have to meet the cable half way So instead of going backwards you have to meet the cable half way You increase the amplitude Meaning you meaning you raise yourself right extending the angles right you raise yourself up as the bells are coming down to meet them at a higher point and And diminish the amount of momentum that they pick up on their way down exactly sometimes it happens that you want to bring The elbows back into rack position and you lean Backwards too much instead of meeting the cable bows halfway and going on the toes that you've mentioned And um, this this was something that happened to me that I felt you know a small tweak in my back and Yeah, I was okay. I was fine, but it's something that bothered me for a few weeks afterwards um Now I don't feel anything. That's fine uh, but um That was that was a lesson You could say with the 32 Yeah, we're teaching you a lesson Exactly exactly Also In the kettlebell clean the cleans I think think that's the most difficult part like now I can do kettlebell jerks And I can get under the belt under the bells Uh, well enough, but the cleans well, that's that's where I expand the most energy um, so Well, when I when I do the kettlebell cleans I Raised my toes again and stop my stump my heel so that's something I don't have to do necessarily with the 24th I keep my feet planted But you know the technique changes according to the weight and according to style I'll fatigue you are in everything else and Body frame too, right because yeah, but if I tune um For you for you raising yourself to meet the bells on on the on the drop of the jerk totally makes sense because you're working at like I said Almost a one-to-one ratio for me the the heart rate response of raising myself up to meet the bells because I'm so much heavier than you is not always worth it And because I have more mass on my frame, I can absorb the force of the bells falling easier than you can So I don't raise myself up to meet the bells on the jerk with 32s now if I start getting up into 40s or 40 or 48s Then I might need to start doing that right because relative to my frame now we're now we're getting closer to talking about you know The same type of weight to weight to body weight ratio that you're working with right so it's important for people to understand that these technique Adjustments are not just about the rate the weight itself It's also about what the weight represents relative to your frame and relative to your size right and everybody's technique might be slightly different Exactly. That's right so um The those were the few lessons that I learned with the 32 kg You know, you have to be very perceptive What you're doing you want to decrease the distance between yourself and the caliber you don't want to increase the amplitude You don't necessarily want to Up to the RPM or go faster make More reps you have to be a lot more patient and um That so this is basically my mindset going into um Long-long cycle fluid 232 uh kg like competition is competition is coming up and i'm gonna go up on the stage and uh see for all that all this time has paid off like i'm feeling good. Yeah, what's what's the what's the goal for the competition? Is it just finished the time? Is it or do you have a do you have a number in mind or what's the goal for the competition? So i do have a number in mind but realistically if i just make the time that's okay Come on two months to jump eight kilograms. That's all especially if my body weight and frame um Like i'll let you do like between 30 to 35 reps and i'll be happy Okay Yeah, so if i go at about three to four pm i should be able to make it But again, you know, just just make the time. No, just make the time and the reps will come and everything else will come like um Yeah, you have to get a custom to know To get under the belts you have to build time under the belts and the reps will come It's yeah, it's an it's an interesting approach uh and i i don't disagree i'm not disagreeing with you at all It's just not an approach that i've i've ever tried As far as as far as going this big of a jump and then just going slow For a training cycle um i'm really interested to see how it works out I've been watching i've been watching uh you know obviously from a distance I've been watching Watching your videos and seeing how you're progressing. It's it's really really interesting. I've My my approach has usually been the opposite uh the opposite end of the spectrum right which is uh Get set the pace and get the and get the reps that you need Um with as light of a bell as necessary and then progressively add weight to the bell Uh and and tell you can you know, but you don't move up and you don't move up and wait until you can sustain The the pacing that you that you need to get the result that you want So you might start at a 16 and then move up to an 18 and then move up to a 20 And the goal is always to hit 70 reps in a 10-minute set right but you don't move up and wait until you can Perform that with the lower weight right and then you do your next training cycle and you know You have it that that approach. So i'm really i'm really interested to see um To see how this approach works out for you and i'm now i'm Uh it makes me it makes me pause and and say hmm i wonder i wonder if this is an approach i should try and and go heavier um and and see Because i'm because i'm crazy like that too i'm like uh i have to i have two 32s sitting uh in my in my garage Just taunting me waiting to be lifted so Maybe else maybe i'll maybe i'll see what i can do with them Yeah, well i like your approach as well i like this strategy like um From what ends did you prescribe our PMT your athletes right? Yes, yes typically yes not not always um but but typically yes We're working off of we're working off of a of a set rpm and right now is a little different I adjusted my approach because of covid um it used to it used to be that with with my athletes Every athlete would get a customized program like From you know what their workout is what weight they're doing and what movement even they're doing on a given day Would be different depending on the athlete and what their goals were but because nobody is Able to see their people and nobody's able to get to their gyms Uh i asked the team you know Do you guys want to just have like an open practice where in zoom we get together in zoom But everybody might be doing different things and you just manage your own time and manage your own clock and what have you or Would you rather that we're all doing the same movement and doing the same workout but i will prescribe the rpm So that it's so that it's custom for what your abilities are and you know I'll prescribe the weight and and the rpm's so that it's customized for what your abilities are but everybody's training together And that was what they voted for so so the entire team will get together You know and whoever can join on the zoom meeting we might have eight people on the zoom meeting and we're all doing 10 one minute intervals My pace might be you know 15 rpm's and somebody else's pace might be 10 You know and i might be working with the the 20 kilos and they might be working with 12's right But we're all doing the same workout together So everybody's working at the same time resting at the same time and we're all then we get that feeling of Community and camaraderie because we're all going through the same suffering at the same time together Um, but it's still customized to their ability So that was the that was how I changed the approach a little bit based on the feedback from the team and because You know COVID is changing changing everything for everybody. Yeah Um, well i really like that the person I heard you mentioned it before on the podcast. I really i thought it was a very good idea Um going into my training. I don't have a first-card rpm i have time basically work with intervals. I have one and intervals longer intervals, you know 35 or Sometimes 10 or 15 depending on the weight, but um the whole point of the training session is to make the time and Find the point at which you are comfortable with the lift and relax. So ivantaxiumi a lot about relaxation even you know when you snatch where they You've probably heard this before you know Imagine that the calibol is a butterfly and you don't want to squeeze it even on the crusher Yeah, but i've never actually never heard that before but i'm absolutely gonna Feel that because i love it. Oh, okay. Okay, so so it's basically that you don't want to crush the butterfly at the same time But at but at the same time you don't want to you know, you don't want to get a lot of clues. Yeah, you can let it go So you have to be somewhere in between so that's the that's the same thing with the guy. I love that I am totally stealing that. I'm gonna use that in our next In our next biathlon session Please do please do please do i will give you i will give you credit love your man So basically going to do my training that's been my mindset this whole time like find Find the place where i'm comfortable with the car bus for comfortable with my with my lifting And trying to believe tension wherever i can pay attention to what i'm doing not necessarily the RPM or how many reps i'm doing and the detail that i hate counting So It's like do eight rpm. I used to you know when i trained with my co he prescribed rpm to me and i hated rpm because i had to I had it to count it and i'm like Okay, never mind. Just do whatever i actually i think this is actually a really important important point to to touch on though because that's That's a great that's a great point that we don't i don't think we think about that enough as at least maybe i'm maybe i'm just speaking for myself I think i need to think about that more for my athletes is what is their preference What do they like because if if counting Gives you anxiety and it makes you it mentally takes you out of your set because you're so focused on counting That you're not present for your technique and you're not relaxing then i'm doing you a disservice by by putting you in a position where you're focusing on something That's not helping you perform because there's enough tension and anxiety that goes into kettlebell sport as is so I actually really i actually really like that thought of It's important to know what your athletes do and don't like from a perspective of do they like just focusing on the time and and their technique or Do they like having the distraction or or Having the the focus because for me i actually like knowing okay every six seconds are rep needs to know on because it it makes me stay in that That rep right okay Six rep locked out 12 rep locked out 18 rep locked out right and just then i'm doing it one rep at a time And i'm not worried about the 10 minutes or i'm not worried about the five minutes or whatever the duration is because for me If i'm too focused on getting to the end I i suffer more As if i can focus on that rep I'm better at finishing the time, but that's just me like for you It sounds like the counting would would distract you and you wouldn't be as relaxed and you wouldn't be as present Right is So that's that's really interesting and i i have to give you credit because um In our most recent us, you know, hypertrophy cycle with my athletes where i was really focused on having people go slower with heavier weights um I didn't incorporate some sets where we were doing like slow long cycle or slow jerk and we weren't counting reps We were just doing it for time and i was i was telling them to totally focus on Finding connection finding relaxation finding What feels good and being present in their bodies and that was because of some of the the content that you had put out and some of the stuff that David killin The kettlebell Irish kettlebell move athlete, you know the kettlebell David some of the stuff that david had said as well So i really really put some of that focus out there. I really like that I think you can have the balance of the two right you can't have sets that where you're doing RPMs and you can't have sets that are More mindfulness approach and more relaxation and finish the time and focus on your technique It's um, so i'm i'm stream of consciousness right now i'm just i'm really i really find that approach fascinating I think you know as a beginning app as a beginner athlete you have to start with either which So either counting reps or doing our PM or just making the time You have to get the customer to do something i think you know you have to begin with something And then maybe make the transition because you don't uh well in the beginning you can't really know what will work best for you That's something that you find out as you go And uh you you can um gain benefits from trying both modalities um So not to say that RPM you know counting reps is a bad thing or it causes anxiety or distracted No, not at all. So it's important to know what your RPM is and How many reps you do it? What pace should you go and And uh strategize in advance. So that's important at the same time It's a point you find the point with which you're comfortable with your lifting And you're focusing that technique on breathing and you're in a flow state you could say Yeah, absolutely i love i love i love the flow of state when everything else drops away and it's just smooth and things are feeling good Uh, that's the best that's the best that's the best that's that's why we do this right is to get those moments afloe All right, so Well, Solomon, thank you so much. I really appreciate the time. I want i'm gonna I'm gonna ask one more question And then i'm gonna let you go because i we've we've been on for a while and obviously we could just talk kettlebell sport for hours and hours But yeah So if you had if you had one if i if i limited you to one piece of advice that you could give to a new lifter that wants to get into kettlebell sport What would that one piece of advice be? In the patient Uh kettlebell sport is like any sport it has its own intricacies and And its own moments and You won't figure it out and at the beginning you won't figure out everything in the beginning even if you are already trained in your And you know you're strong your muscular and all that stuff And you're very enthusiastic about your what you're doing or you know even the opposite You're just tying out and you've never done fitness before In either case you have to be patient because there's a lot to learn many mistakes And honestly, where's the rush? Because i want results now And the reps will cut. I love that. I love that. I think that I think that is great advice You got his fantastic advice and it's honestly advice that would help me as a young lifter because I am not a patient person, but kettlebell sport has has has made me more so It's definitely improved my patience because of that. So yeah, there was iron Thank you. Thank you so much, Solomon. I really appreciate this has been a really fun conversation I can't wait to see how your how your meat goes and I can't wait until we can actually travel the world again I can I can meet you in person and and hopefully see you on the platform in person in the not too distant future Oh, man, that would be amazing. Thank you for having me and yeah, I'll be so honored to come visit you and train with you That would be great. That would be great. I'd love to get to Israel too because I've never I've never been and I would I would love to I would love to see Israel. So yeah, yeah, hopefully we can make that happen soon Sure, yeah, come visit us. We come visit us at the cuddle gym Awesome Well, thank you very much. I hope you have a great rest of your get rest of your day and thanks for coming on man. We'll talk soon We'll talk soon have a great day, man Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright If you have a question, please email me at Twin Cities kettlebell club at gmail.com Follow us on instagram and facebook at twin cities kettlebell club on twitter at tckb club Online at twin cities kettlebell club.com and please help us grow our reach and give us a review on apple podcasts spotify Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts until next time