Dr. Kristina Campione | Chiropractic physician, Nutrition coach, and mother

Welcome to the platform podcast. I'm your host Jordan Kunde-Wright, founder and head coach of the Twin Cities Kettlebell Club And I'm on a mission to help others build sustainable healthy habits I know how hard that can be because I've struggled and succeeded to varying degrees throughout my life But I've lost over a hundred pounds and kept it off for over a decade now the key for me was discovering my passion for lifting weights in Kettlebell Sport on this podcast we'll talk to athletes coaches experts and everyday people about Kettlebell's fitness programming nutrition mindset making an impact and generally striving to grow and leave a legacy of positive change Please join me. Alright, welcome in to season two of the platform podcast. Today's guest is Dr... Kristina Campione coming to us from the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. I am very excited to have her on. She is a chiropractic physician as well as having a Master's of Science in nutrition and human performance. So we are going to talk about all of the things today as it relates to nutrition human performance and you just launched your own nutrition consulting company as well. So I did Kristina, welcome in. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Me too. Me too. So first let's let's give people a little bit of the background on who you are. We can go all the way back to your Sporty Spice years, right? Like what's your what's your athletic background? First we'll start with that before we get into the how did you become a doctor? So athletic background, I was a competitive gymnast for a long time. So gymnast, I think it's gymnast, gymnast. Yes, especially if you actually for years, my friends always kind of joked with me that I needed to like root ski up my name a little bit to make it more gymnastics. So like they would call me like Kristina. We do that in kettlebell too, actually. All the bad asses from the right that Easter, the oldest and black that old training mentality, right? So I was a high school and a competitive club gymnast for a long time ended up going to UIC to do gymnastics and for various universities. University of Illinois, Chicago for those of you who don't know. Sorry for those of you who aren't local, my apologies. And I really just kind of after having a really great experience in the gymnastics world for 10 years, which you hear a lot of horror stories, whereas I was like, oh my god, this is the greatest forever. I have great coaches. I have great, you know, everything. And I got to college and I was really just not having the best experience. And so I decided to quit and learn how to pole vault as a sophomore in college. And pretty easy to acquire skill. Right. You know, it looks super easy when people do it. Pick up a stick and run at the big tall thing, right? When yourself 20 feet into the year. Why not? Like, I'm a little deranged when it comes to like, you know, what I think is adrenaline versus like, you know, it's totally, why wouldn't you do that? Yeah, it makes sense. I look at it and go, that pole's going to snap. They don't make the physics to support my weight. And spent the next three years as a field athlete, having the time of my life, making a lot of really great friends, a lot of really great connections and working with a really, so why chiropractic even actually came from those days, I was working with a really phenomenal chiropractor who was coming to take care of the athletes kind of as an adjuvant to our training staff. And it also happened to be that our weightlifting coach had, she was working with various football players at the time who were kind of in that world. And again, there's a lot of kind of chiropractor things that have come and gone as fads, but, but she was working with ART at the time. And so not only did I know that I eventually wanted to go. So active release technique. So at the time, she was saying like, Hey, you know, if you want to be a chiropractor, you don't have to just be this traditional person who comes in and, you know, we kind of jokingly say like racks and cracks, right? We don't have to just pop back. There's a lot more that you can do in this career field if you know about all of these cool postgraduate certifications that are available to you. So fast forward, I graduate from college, I did end up going to chiropractic school, met my husband in the cadaver lab. A little job story there, right? Shout out to my hubs there. And kind of not only knew that I wanted to be a chiropractor, but actually knew a lot of the postgraduate stuff that I wanted to pursue after my doctoral education. So came out really with the mindset that I wanted to be a movement professional. I wanted to look at how people move. I wanted to assess, you know, proper movement, improper movement, you know, putting correctives to it. I didn't want to just be that traditional idea of what people thought a chiropractor was. To me, it was a gap in the system between orthopedic surgery and non-surgical orthopedics, right? There was kind of, there is no MD specialty for an orthopedic who does not perform surgery, who does other manual techniques. And being that in, at least where I am in the state of Illinois, we have a very kind of liberal scope of practice as chiropractors. We can pretty much do anything that doesn't involve medications or surgery. It opened this doorway for me to say, okay, I'm going to be a non-surgical orthopedist, right? So I was doing a lot of movement with my patients, lots of, you know, the correctives, pursuing all the the movement, continuing education. And I kind of started to see this weird trend that patients who were coming in, you know, we could throw all the cool movement stuff at them. We could do every proper exercise. I could assess their core until I was blue in the face. But if they were doing something lifestyle wise, that was inhibiting their healing. If they were a chronic smoker, if their diet was, you know, really subpar, then they would feel really great for a while after treatment. And inevitably, you know, a month or two later, they'd be like, hey, I felt really great for this amount of time, but it's back or it felt really great. But I've still got this like slight low level nagging type pain. And once I kind of started to really dive into the science of how our systemic inflammation affects our healing, I really kind of started to look at, you know, how do we put the fire out so that your body actually can capitalize on its opportunity to heal, right? And it can't do that if there's constantly kind of this like low level embers burning all the time because of lifestyle factors. And so after my first child, I decided it would be a really good idea to practice part time, be a mom, and go pursue a master's degree. So I did while I was, right, yeah, I mean, I was like, I'm pregnant with my second. It's never going to be less chaotic than this ever again. So I did, I decided to do my degree online. It ended up being really spectacular. I also obviously geek out with a lot of extracurricular reading. My reading list is like a nutrition nerd's dream. And it's just something that fascinates me. I'm fascinated by how our gut and how we put what we put in and on our body, how it affects not only how we heal, it affects everything from how we think, to how we behave, to how we, you know, our susceptible illness are not, it's just got so much more of a ripple effect than people. I think people think of nutrition and diet and they think of things like, is this going to make me fat or is this going to make me faster or slower, right? Because they're either super conscious in terms of nutrition because they want to do it for performance reasons or they're concerned with their appearance. Now, really, like, I don't dabble in whether or not you look in the mirror and feel slimmer or not, I look at your data in terms of, like, how do you feel? What does our, what does our body chemistry look like? You know, how, what does our resistance to disease look like? And how good is our body at healing from events that could potentially do things, like reduce performance, right? Like nobody wants to get injured and be out for months at a time because they just for some reason their body just isn't doing what it should be doing in order to heal. And athletes are notorious for that, right? Like athletes will do all the rehab exercises you want to give them, like, you give them three sets of a million and they're nodding their head, like, absolutely. Like, tell me when to get them done, but they're not good at sitting out and they're not good at necessarily doing things that they need to do to heal. And I don't want to miss it out. Like, nobody wants to sit out. We're all terrible at it. So I'm like, how can I get you better faster, right? And a lot of that isn't necessarily starting with just, you know, let's give you these 17,000 wrist exercises for your wrist injury. It's, well, why isn't your wrist healing as quickly as possible? And sometimes we have to look inside for that. Yeah, that's, oh, there's so much to unpack there. I love, I love everything, I love everything you said there except calling me out about not ever sitting out. But, um, hey, it took for now, man, I was the worst. I think it took my gymnastics coach, like, it took me like six weeks to tell him that my wrist hurt. And by the time I did, they were like, hey, you shredded like three ligaments in there. Like, you want to tell us about that? And I was like, not good. Yeah, I played with a broken rib, too. I had a crack in my, I had a crack in my rib. They're like, they're like, they're like, does it hurt? I was like, only when I breathe, it's fine. It's fine. I'm good. Just let me go back in the game. Wrap it up. We're all exactly the same. Yeah. I'm like, hey, it's just this stress fracture. I can totally still pull both of this. Like, it's nobody deal. But I literally just had a conversation with one of my, with one of my athletes about a very similar thing talking about, you know, we're talking about recovering from systemic inflammation. We're talking about recovering from, you know, because he was having skin issues and digestive issues and things that, that to me, I was like, okay, this is indicative to me of either you're ingesting something consistently that is inflaming your body, or you just have systemic over inflammation. You just have, for a period of time, you've just been overinflamed for too long and you've just got systemic stress that's too high. And we need to figure out what's, what's going on. And it's like, you know, he's starting to feel better. So he wants to, you know, get back to it. Get back to it. Get back to it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're, we're storing stasis. We're, we're trying to restore stasis. This is all about getting back to homeostasis. But it's such a hard conversation to have with people who are naturally type a naturally driven, naturally oriented to goal. But it's, you know, it's difficult to be like, hey, the best thing that's going to get you there faster is to slow down. It's like, wait a minute, what? You know, it's a very counterintuitive concept. To everything you've been programmed to do since like the moment you, you decided what's for your, your sold-on, right? Yeah. The kudos to you for recognizing that. I mean, people don't realize that skin, you know, skin conditions, joint, like, multi-focal joint pain and, you know, depression are three of the biggest things that are indicative that something's going on in terms of your gut. So when people are like, hey, I've got this eczema that won't go away or like, hey, I have multiple joints that seem to be bothering me at all times or I just don't feel great mood-wise. Those are big indicators of, yeah, and inflammation pouring out somewhere. Well, and to your point about, you know, gaps in the system, right? And I feel, I feel for people that like go through this experience where they're like, hey, I've been to every doctor, I've gone through every test and they, all they can tell me is, yeah, we don't know what it is. You just have, you just have a condition, you know, whether it's skin or gut or you just have IBS or you just have, and it's like, okay, let's, it doesn't just happen. Like, I understand what they're saying, but what they're really saying is, I don't know what it is, not that there isn't a cause. There's like, well, we don't know what it is. Like, well, that's because it's outside of your scope of education. And that doesn't mean that there's not some underlying cause, but it's like, we have to keep pulling on the threads. Like, if we've eliminated these variables, let's look at other variables because there are other variables to look at. So it's a, it's a challenge in the, in the Western healthcare system, you know, that's the, because it's more of an illness treatment model than it is a wellness model. So what, when you look at systemic inflammation and the indicators of inflammation, what are the biggest culprits that you see in, we'll just say America, but Western culture in general, like, what are the biggest inflammatory agents that most people probably have going on in their life that maybe they're aware of maybe they're not, you know, but, but what could, what could you tell people that to look out for when, when it comes to, like, what should they be, what could they do to avoid some of the inflammatory agents in their life? So there's a couple of factors you could, you could dive into each of these categories. So let's kind of just say there's, let's, you know, if we put it into categories, we could say one first the things that we put in our body, right? So looking at, you know, the lining of the gut and whether or not it's sensitive to certain food groups, right? Are you, and everybody, you know, we could get on the gluten train for the longest time, but gluten's not the only thing, right? Are we having issues with dairy? Are we having issues with corn? Are we having issues with soy? Are we having issues? Okay. And then we're also constantly bombarding our body with things like sugar. Sugar is incredibly inflammatory. And people think of sugar as just, hey, there's actual added, like, sucrose in this, right? But we have to actually look at things like refined. And I hate, I'm not going to be one of those people that, like, vilifies a macronutrient because I can't stand that people are like, I don't eat carbs, I'm like, like, great broccoli's a carb, like, what are we doing here? So I'm not on the train of, like, getting rid of an entire macronutrient near diet. I think that's ridiculous. But if there's something that is genuinely upsetting to that person system, we may need to look at removing it. There are some kind of catch all, like, this is going to bother everyone, right? Like, obviously, too many seed oils, too, like, refined seed oils, too many refined grains, too many, too much sugar. There's going to be foods that just kind of are like a no-no for everyone, right? So seed oils, let's articulate what I know what you mean, but I want to make sure that everybody knows what you mean. When you say seed oils, what are the seed oils that you refer to? I mean things, like, your canola oils, your vegetable oils, the things that were sold to you as, like, the heart healthy low fat oil. Wait, so vegetable oils are actually seed oils? So corn is actually a seed and not actually a vegetable. Yeah, yeah, it's really more, it acts more like a starch and a grain. And I think that people were sold on this idea that these low fat oils were going to solve all their problems. But what we see is most of them, not only are they, their fatty acid ratios are completely out of whack in terms of what our body needs, the inflammatory fats like your omega-6 fats are really high in those types of oils. But the way that their manufactured is also very aggressive. A lot of these are pressed with chemicals in order to expedite the pressing process. Like, it's very hard. If you could find, you know, like cold pressed canola oil, I still would love it, but it'd be better than potentially just like your conventional canola oil. But they're almost impossible to find just because of the way they make sure. And that's what it means when they say cold pressed, right? That basically means it's not done through a chemical process. It's actually done through a mechanical process of pressing the oil. Yeah. I learned something. I didn't know that. I prefer, you know, I prefer like your avocado oils, your coconut oils. I use a lot of olive oil, but only on cold foods. So like, after it's been cooked, I don't actually cook with olive oil because it's a very delicate oil. So that's the other thing is fatty acid. Most low smoke point in the you damaged the chemicals and they rancify all the whole nine urns. Then we have to so that's just kind of the layer of like what goes in our body, right? Because your your digestive system is the outside of your body. Technically, I always kind of talk about humans as being like a complicated twisty doughnut, right? Like the digestive tract is the outside of your body and then you bring all of these things in. So what we bring into our body, what we put on our body, particularly for women. I mean, no, I was just going to say, I was just going to say, I just put soap. I have soap on a rope. My son loves it. We call it soap in a little scrubber thing. Yeah. That's all I was asking. Women put upwards of a thousand chemicals on themselves every day between makeup and hair products and skin products and body lotions and nail polish. And like it's just, you know, there's so much that goes in. And in Europe, there's like 1,600 ingredients that are banned that are completely unproblematic here. So that's another, you know, your skin, I like to call it your skin as a carrier, not a barrier, right? It's not going to like stop. It's the largest organ in the body. Exactly. And so we can't expect it to be exempt from the the equation in terms of like what we're being exposed to. So we're talking like parabins and phalates, right? And what are those? So parabins are mostly a lot of the ingredients that kind of go into these products. Their problematic tend to be preservatives, right? These things need to sit on shelves for long periods of time. A lot of them are stabilizers. A lot of them, things like talc, they're contaminated with metals oftentimes. So it tends to be that a lot of them, and it's the same with food, right? A lot of this nonsense that gets placed into into processed food has to do with the fact that if I put a twinkie on a plate for however long, it's not going to rot. I can't do that with an apple. Food is, it should rot, right? Like we're just supposed to eat it before it does. So a lot of these things that are problematic tend to be like those stabilizers, those emulsifiers, those things are going to allow something to sit on a shelf either, you know, in terms of a beauty product in a bottle or in terms of a food product on a shelf. Otherwise, everything in our household, right? You, who wants to like buy lotion and have to like store it in the fridge because it's going to go bad if, you know, right? It just becomes very problematic from a manufacturing standpoint, even. You know, like how do you produce it, ship it, sell it, and use it before it goes bad? So then you can look at, you know, other lifestyle factors to someone smoke, obviously that's a huge one, you know, are there other other factors, recreational drug use, depending on what, you know, there's, there's a lot of like lifestyle choices that you can make that will obviously clean impact there and then environmental toxins. If someone has an occupation that may expose them to certain things and then just all of the products that are in your house that like I've gotten so far down the rabbit hole that like people think I'm insane because I'm like, okay, so we have to make sure that all the kids pajamas don't have flame retardants in them and my mom's like there's flame retardants in pajamas and I'm like, yeah, read the labels, they're you know, they're dipping kids mattresses in for maldehyde because of the fire code when you know, it's it's cheaper than using all of these like inert salts to do it or it's cheaper than it's cheaper to make a flame retardant blanket than it is to make a wool blanket which would burn very slowly, right? So in the in the interest of meeting all of these like safety criteria, which is good, like we should keep things in our children's bedrooms from lighting on fire easily but at the same time we should probably do it with chemicals that won't give them asthma or respiratory issues or cancer in 30 years, right? And it's in everything, it's in your glues and your paints and your right and and so then it becomes like a how deep do we want to go? Does do we let it off gas and then garage before we put in our bedroom? Do we buy no VOC paint? Do we, right? And so it's it's very easy from a manufacturing standpoint to just say like slap a label on it and be like, hey, you know, we we have some mild data to say that this might be problematic but no big deal like it hasn't really harmed anyone because you know, have informed consent, it's on you, right? You have informed consent, it's on you and that's one of the biggest problems with this entire system is that it becomes the burden becomes on the consumer, right? The burden is on the consumer to go discover what it is and isn't that they want to be exposed to. So 50 years later, if you get cancer, it's very hard to then roll back and say, okay, was it the artificial sweeteners I was eating? Is it the hair dye that I'm constantly exposed to because I'm a hairdresser? Is it the flame retardants in my couch? And at that point you can't say, well, it was this one thing and so we just won't blame it on anything and we'll keep moving through life pretending that none of this is an issue, right? But the reality is is that the rates of chronic disease have risen exponentially to the point where we can't blame this on like a genetic change, right? Like we haven't changed, we haven't evolved. We don't evolve that quickly. Right, like we're not bacteria, we haven't evolved enough since the 50s to say there's something that can explain genetically like the tremendous rise in things like dementia. There's tremendous rise in things like X, Y or Z to be a dying name, name any chronic disease at this point. We care ex disease. People didn't used to know what we care ex disease was and now people are like, you know, dumping buckets of ice on their head to raise money for ALS because it's so much more prominent and we just don't have a concrete genetic explanation. And so the only other explanation is environment, right? Something around us has to be contributing to these increases in chronic disease. Well, and then there's the difficulty of interaction effects as well, right? Because you have, how do you parse out the, what is the role of a more sedentary lifestyle in general for Americans? The abundance of more calories. And regardless of calorie quality, let's just, we'll leave the calorie quality out a part of the equation out of it. We'll just say we're eating more calories, they're more available. We eat more. We move less. We have more stress. We sleep less. We have more technology, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, and by the way, we also have all of these environmental, you know, toxins that are also going in. You know, so then it starts to be, it becomes such a Rubik's cube, you know, at a certain point, you're like, okay, well, we can't, that's why I always, I get super frustrated when people like, well, the problem is X. What the problem is sugar or the problem is a lot of things. It's like, no, it's multi-faceted. It's not, it's not any one thing. But that's also the challenges as a coach, right, is trying to have a holistic and deep enough understanding to be able to start viewing the interactions between the different silos. But it's also super hard because you can go so deep in any one silo that you can get a little bit tunnel visioned and then but who can afford to have a team of people that are experts in all of these different areas? In every single field. Yeah. So it's, it's, it becomes, it becomes really, really challenging. So with that, I'm going to ask you what most people would consider a softball question, but I think it's actually a really hard question is what's the longest lever we have to pull on to improve our health? Yes. That's not an easy question. It's not an easy question because there are so many factors. And I think that one of the biggest things that we need to do is actually get involved in changing our food system. And that in and of itself is a, just, it's a cluster of fuck. Like it's really the only way you can possibly describe it. So part of me. But no, no, there's, that is the perfect term for it at this point. Our system is designed to make people fail. You're surrounded by marketing for terrible foods that are produced by companies that all natural food. Right. Oh, well, I love, you know, everybody knows how much I love that term. But they're produced by companies who, their obligation is not to you. Their obligation is to their shareholders, right? And so their obligation as a company is to make as much money as possible while spending as little as possible. So we pay for it on the front end and in the back end in things like the farm bill, right? Where, and this is not to be blamed on any political party because it doesn't seem to matter who's in office. These, these food companies have such a tremendous amount of power that it's really kind of been stagnant for a large number of years at this point that we do things like convince farmers that it's more equitable to farm things like corn and soy rather than like food crops that we promise them will sell them to cattle that we are over farming anyway because we're all eating too much meat, right? And so now we've got all these literally cowfarts like screwing up the environment because we're raising too much meat. Then we have too much feed for them. So we subsidize it, right? The government then pays for the corn in a subsidy that they then pay to sell to companies like Coca-Cola, whoever, whoever it is that needs it to make high fructose corn syrup. And then we make a process food product out of it. So we're paying for all of it on the front end in terms of like environmental cost in terms of government subsidies. And then on the back end, we pay for it in terms of health consequences because we're paying increased costs for things like Medicare and Medicaid, right? And in the intermediate step, you can get two, you can get two leaders of Coca-Cola for, you know, a buck 25 at the corner store or whatever it sells for on that. In your food desert, where snack will pay for it because that's written in the bill too that we can spend, you know, snack funds on sugary beverages and these types of things. And it gets better. Food companies actually advertise their processed foods more heavily in those underserved areas on the day when benefits come out, right? So we have this system that's basically set up for people to make the cheap, easy, convenient choice when we would be so much better served saying like scrap growing the soybeans, stop growing so much meat in like a confined animal farm, right? Where we're, we have all these feedlot animals. And instead, like, let's grow some food and let like real food, like things like apples and broccoli and, right, like, things that are, you know, going to be beneficial, stop letting people spend their food benefits on things like soda, right? But the unfortunate reality is people give the pharmaceutical industry this credit as being this like big, you know, master puppeteer, super, you large industry that has all this lobbying power and they do don't get me wrong. But not everybody takes medications, everybody eats, and so food companies really have this tremendous lobbying power. The government can come in and say something like, hey, here's how much salt we think you should be eating. And then the food companies come in and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that makes us look kind of bad when we have to put on our package that this is like 3,000 percent of your daily intake, right? So they argue it down and they, you know, so there's a lot there that needs to be done, obviously. So I'm going to, I want to, I want to devil's advocate you a little bit here just for fun. Fire away. What about personal responsibility? How, what is so, I don't disagree with you that, that there are societal and systemic factors at play that are powerful and interact with one another. But at the same time, there are also people that know that an apple is a better choice than an apple pie. So where does the personal, where does the personal responsibility come in as well? And I'm not saying it's binary, but I'm curious what your, what your thought is as, you know, as somebody who cares about food politics, but also coaches individuals to make better choices, right? Where does personal responsibility start to play in as well? So my thought on where do we look at like the system versus the individual? And my, my feelings on what people shouldn't do is the only reason why you shouldn't X, Y, or Z, the only reason you shouldn't eat well, the only reason you shouldn't breastfeed, the only reason you shouldn't exercise, right? Is because you don't want to. If we remove all of those other barriers, right? If we solve things like food equity, if we solve things like financial constraints, if we solve all of the barriers there are to things like eating well, then at that point, if it's, if it's just a choice, I can't force you to do something you don't want to do, right? Then it's on you, if you don't want to do it. If you look, like at this point, everybody knows smoking is bad for them, right? Like we've been saying it for, it's, it's not the fifties anymore where your doctor comes into your appointment, like smoking a cigarette, it's not mad men anymore, right? So at this point, I feel like if you smoke, you know how bad it is for you, right? You're making a conscious choice to do something that isn't good for you. And it is what it is. You're going to have to live with those consequences of, you might get lung cancer, you might get, you know, there might be other consequences to that. Now, if we lived in a society where people were still saying like smoking is good for you and people were like, well, my doctor said it's okay, that's a different equation, right? So I definitely think that there is a huge level of personal responsibility. I think that most of us can sit there and say, as you said, the apple is better than the apple pie. And I 100% am on board with that. If I, if I didn't believe that, I think I'd be a pretty terrible nutrition coach, if I was like, it's completely, you're, you're a powerless in this equation, right? Like someone just like force Sweden, you cheetos as you sit there, right? But I definitely think that that we can't necessarily tease that out from things like inequity, food deserts, right? Like so there's this level of we have to remove those barriers first. And then at that point, if you're choosing to do it, it should, it shouldn't be because you don't have the means, the knowledge, or the access, right? And if you have those three things, if you know it's bad for you, if you have access to better food and you can afford to buy the better food, then, then you have no excuse, right? But that personal responsibility is that other kind of big 50% of that equation. Yeah. Well, we, we can't necessarily affect the, the means or the access component of it, the two of us that is, maybe, yeah. But, we can't, we can affect the knowledge component a little bit as, as nutrition coaches. So, let's go down that, let's go down that rabbit hole a little bit. So, what are your biggest pet peeves or of, of misinformation that's still prevalent right now from a nutrition standpoint that you wish people understood, you know, what, what are, I guess I'll say your top, your top three, that is my top three. What really bothers you that you see on a regular basis? I believe the whole, all animal products are the double thing like that. I feel, I have another friend who I've kind of had this conversation with who she's, she's a dietitian and we kind of joke that, I feel like the word plant-based, like the words plant-based diet have been like you served. I have no problem with completely plant, I call them plant exclusive diets. I have no problem with plant-exclusive diets. I think that they can be done. I think they can definitely be done in a way where, if you're exclusively plants, not excluding plants. Exclusively pants. Yes, if you're a plant-exclusive diet, meaning you only eat plants, I think it can be done in a way that is conducive to good nutrition if you're cognizant of it because I always kind of crack a joke that people will tell me like I'm a vegetarian and I'm like cool, run me through what you eat and they'll give me this list of food and I'm like you didn't name any vegetables. Like let's start there. You're a cookie tarion or you're a pasta tarion or you're a whatever but you're not a vegetarian. You didn't eat any vegetables in that equation. So I kind of hate this myth of like people have been sold on that lipid hypothesis, right, that like eggs are bad for you and all meat is bad for you and I'm like I mean can we talk about like the quality of the meat like yeah I don't really want to eat like a feedlot cow but like grass-fed beef like in moderate quantities like you know portion size matters, quality matters. So I do kind of hate that idea that there's one you know only one way to do this and it's and it's to you know eliminate an entire thing right so so eliminating all animal products or eliminating all grains or eliminating all right like that that idea that like we have to have this how about a meat-exclusive diet are you into carnivore? No I'm not into that either like I like I said to you earlier I'm really not into this idea that we have to put ourselves in a little tiny box and like label it like I don't like the label of like I'm only keto or I'm only paleo or I'm all like just eat food right like just eat nutritious food and who gives a shit right if you named it xy or z because it made you feel like you have something to conform to and it makes you I think maybe it gives people a sense of feeling like if they call it a specific thing they'll be more inclined to like feel like they're having their handheld because there's a bigger guideline right just say eat eat it for sure there's that but then there's also the virtue signaling part of it there's the tribalism part of it right but and I and I say this knowing that it's probably a little whatever it'll probably trigger some people but there's a virtue signaling thing by saying well I'm a vegetarian or I'm vegan right there are definitely and that's not that's not everybody who chooses those lifestyles but there are there is definitely a component of that uh that there are people within those tribes that are use it as a virtue signaling thing like well I'm vegan I don't I don't I don't I don't partake I don't use any animal products because it's not fair to them it's like really ever met a cow that hasn't been milked in three days they're fucking miserable like they want you to mix them when they haven't been milked at the right at the right interval you know but I don't eat animal products and I'm like cool do you eat grains and they're like yeah and I'm like okay well like if a combine rips through a farm some field mice are gonna die right like there's just no equation where feeding billions of human beings doesn't result in in unfortunately the death of some animals yeah I I am a big believer in the idea that like you were born with omnivorous teeth you were born to live on an omnivorous diet but it if we if we start to get to a point where like well I don't eat any carbs or I don't eat any like then we're starting to have these just large nutrient gaps I'm just a big idea like my big idea in terms of nutrition is like we should have a well-rounded reasonable low processed food diet and if that means that we get our protein primarily from X source or Y source but don't vilify an entire food or an entire food group right and I think that a lot of times it's just like quality here matters right like the eggs that you buy from Walmart probably aren't the same as like my eight girls in the backyard I have backyard chickens eight chickens yes like eight chickens I've eight hens right yeah not not eight not eight not eight little girls so I have eight hens right and they're eating grass all day they're roaming around in the sunshine they're like digging in my yard and they're laying these like beautiful bright golden eggs right so the yolks don't just look to look different like it looks it's a whole different color when you get in action they're amazing I taste so good but this idea that we have to like you know kabosh an entire food group that you were literally designed to eat humans are incredible in the sense that we can thrive on a really large variety of diets it's why we've been so successful as a species because we can persevere through a lot of different types of famine you can survival of the most exactly we it's yeah it's not survival of the fittest it's the survival of the most adaptable and we as humans in terms of our nutrition we are extremely adaptable we can survive for long periods of time on very you know minimal restrictive diets but that doesn't mean that that's the best way to not optimal right it's not optimal for long periods of time just because you can do a thing doesn't mean it's optimal for correct longevity I had someone argue with me one of those like 10 days was it maple syrup cayenne pepper like things right and how like it's like the greatest things in sliced bread and I was like well but you're you're starving yourself just enough to localize all the fat in your body because we know we harbor our toxins in our fat but we're not giving our body enough nutrients to push our liver into the second phase of detoxification so you're actually packaged and shuttle out the toxins that you've just flushed exactly so you feel like shit for a few days and then you're like oh I feel miraculous when I started eating again so my joke was always like you never see a lion in the jungle being like oh god I know there's the dead will to be but I'm not going to eat it because I'm on my maple syrup fast right like it's the only species that has the luxury of being able to think that way right yeah it's uh yeah it's uh yeah it's it's it's funny that it's funny that you that you mentioned that because I actually had a conversation not that long ago with somebody who is like what what I'm like what what approach are you taking eating like oh I do whole 30 okay how long have you been on the whole 30 plan oh like two years but you realize it's called the whole built in the title last 30 days like this is literally not meant to last all play like this is not a sustainable approach to nutrition or eating like it's they they tell you what the time frame is in the title but that's uh it's the same that might be my number two pet peeve too is this idea of these unsustainable eating patterns right like I I just think that a lot of these these people I don't want you to go on a diet I freaking hate the word diet right because a diet isn't something you go on it's the collective of the things that you put in your body to nourish yourself over your collective lifetime it's not like to call it an eating regimen yes it's not something you go on right it's not like a fat or like a new outfit that's not going to be trendy in two years it's it's your light right you should be eating to nourish this incredible machine that is your home and not because like this you know celebrity promised you you're going to lose this many pounds in this many days and that's just not sustainable in the long term so okay so we've got we've got two we got fat we've got the fat diets and the and all of the unsustainable approaches what what what else grinds your gears what are the other what are the other big ones I'm sure I think the third one is probably like the crazy just the off-the-wall supplements like sometimes I'll get people who will message me and they'll be like hey have you ever heard of this I'm taking this now or like you know I'll recommend there's like a handful of supplements that I generally recommend for everyone like I'll be like hey take a good multi-mineral you know take a take a vitamin D and make sure you're taking like a solid omega and then after that it's all like person specific like if we talk about this if you have a adrenal fatigue we talk about this there are some people will I'll you know look at their medicine cabinet and there's nine thousand supplements in there and I'm like what are you taking all of these four and they're like mighty this for this and this for this and I'm like well what are you eating that your diet is so deficient and all of this shit that you need these like 55,000 nutrients to like fill in the gaps of what you're doing right so like most of it should be coming from your food and I think a lot of that is to again it's especially with athletes like athletes crack me up they're like this is my pre-workout this is my during workout how many shakes do you need to go lift for 30 minutes it's just outrageous it's the peak of the pyramid like I I like supplementation I'm not going to lie about that like I'm a fan of supplementation but to to your point like it is the last component it is caloric balance macro nutrients micro nutrients then timing then then supplementation right and like those are those are like the right amount of the right things of the right quality at the right time then adjuncts very similar athlete pyramid I always kind of talk about like diet and lifestyle first then macro nutrients then micro nutrients and timing and supplements and like that's kind of my hierarchy but same thing I'm like hey your supplements should be there I am with you I love supplements but I love supplements that are appropriate for the individual yeah individual individual yeah yeah absolutely I'm I'm the same way I actually literally just told one of my guys he asked he was he's taking a multivitamin he's like should I even be taking this I look probably not like if if you're eating well yeah well you probably shouldn't be taking a multivitamin it's like it kind of said the same thing you said it's like if you're eating shittily enough that you need a multivitamin that's your least problem because it's like honestly there's a lot for a lot of them they're not key-rated properly they inhibit the they inhibit the absorption of certain nutrients inhibit the absorption of others and I was like you don't have that many gaps you might need one or two and like I'm with you vitamin D is one I recommend for everybody magnesium vitamin C vitamin D you know but the like the ones that are generally considered safe generally considered you know efficacious right and of the right quality and of the right dosage and all of those and I tell I really get a vitamin D test like it's absolutely cheap it's super easy and then you know whether you need a thousand you need a thousand I use or you need five thousand I use like it makes it makes a difference and it's like and those are all cheap and that's the thing like you know he generally know it's you generally know it's a it's a supplement you probably should be taking one it's one of the cheap ones because like vitamin C vitamin C is super cheap vitamin D is super cheap cream amount of hydrate super fucking cheap like like but those are the ones that work because nobody's been it's all the research is there to back them up so nobody's been able to claim a proprietary blend that gives you a thousand percent increase and it was like no it's like you take crew team mono you might get a five percent increase in strength okay I'm gonna take that because five percent matters yeah five percent matters yeah I mean it's not the skull and crossbones like work out work out work out yeah yeah here's yeah like just loading with you yeah here's five hundred milligrams of caffeine yeah you know it's like oh my god so yeah it's yeah it's fun the guy who takes that is then like or girl who takes that is then in the gym like they do three sets of three and then they're on their phone for the next like four five minutes they're like I worked out for an hour man and I'm like I get the line I actually see the other side of it more it's it's more the the guy like well I've got to take I've got to take my I've got to take my pre workout or I can't hit my I can't hit my 90 minute session and yeah the and then I've got and then I've got work and then I've got work and then I did and you walk through and you're like fuck man I'm stressed out just hearing about your life like why are you taking six hundred milligrams of caffeine a day like that is the last thing you're that is the last thing your body needs on top of all the other things that you're talking about like let's talk about adrenal fatigue a little bit like right actually that would be a good to ask you about like what are symptoms and signals of adrenal fatigue and is adrenal fatigue really a thing um and because you get people will say like well adrenal fatigue is not really a thing like adrenals can't really be fatigued that's a that's a thing so give us a doctor's perspective on if you're asking me if your adrenals are like sitting in there like whoa it's been a rough day um from a perspective of our it's not that they're burning out in the way that kind of people talk about them but they're definitely just working over time all the time how many how many people at this point in 2020 can say that they're not stressed out about anything right like even if you didn't have anxiety I don't I'm not an anxious person my husband gets to to claim the title for like anxious of the two of us I have like raging anxiety right now all the time just because I have children it's 2020 and the world is a dumpster fire and so you have that perpetual kind of low level you know if you have these these adrenal hormones that are constantly kind of being secreted in low level amounts then at a certain point it is it's kind of like the boy who cried wolf like your adrenals are like dude we are running from the cheetah all the time like I'm done let the cheetah take you like it's we're done here um and so you see it a lot uh obviously again because of the high stress you see it a lot I know that's not your main population but you see it a lot in like post-menopausal women they have no estrogen their adrenals are desperately trying to convert some estrogen in the in the little bit of fat they have left to to make up for the estradiol that they're they're missing out on so if the adrenals if the adrenals aren't able to do that job properly and you lose out on all the other kind of like end of the line hormones that should be happening here then yeah you see women who can't sleep at night you see uh you see all these consequences of people who get up and they do like you said they need the six cups of coffee to get through their day there's no reason why any like a reasonable human being who gets more than let's even be generous and say like six hours of sleep and I have two kids I don't need more than one cup of coffee in the morning because even with low levels amounts of stress my diet should be nourishing those organs and the problem is is we don't eat the foods that nourish our organs in the United States we like the pretty parts of animals we want to eat the steak we want to eat the right we want to eat all the nice pre-butchered I don't have to think about the fact that it actually came from a living breathing cow and we don't do things like eat organ meat so we don't eat you know that's one of the things I think that carnivore is actually getting right is the is the rooted or tutor component of it and you actually are seeing people that are for the first time in their life eating liver and heart and stomach and tail and cheek and all of the things like I will like I will eat an animal knows to tail like I actually like I actually like liver I'm one of the weird people I actually like liver I eat Languotacos like I will you know I'll eat tripe like but that's not I'm I will be the first to tell you I'm odd you know but it's interesting that you say like we're not eating the things that support the organs and how does that tie to the HPA at HPA the HPA accesses you know hippothelma's pituitary and adrenals for people that aren't familiar and that's what we were just kind of getting into is adreno fatigue is to me it's a lot like muscle memory like people use the term muscle memory to make a very complex physiological phenomenon understandable to a to a normal person right like like if yeah do muscles actually have memory no because they don't have brains but the the fact that your brain can activate neural pathways and neurological signals go down a particular chain and the more it goes the the better it gets and you know motor pattern learning and all of those things are real things but it it takes a higher level understanding that's not easy to it's not easy to communicate so people just say well you need muscle memory you need to practice they're basically saying you need to practice this because you get more efficient with practice because they're that is a real thing it's the same thing in my opinion with adreno fatigue is a is a terminology that helps people understand the basics of HPA access dysfunction right it's like basically and basically telling you that you're you're overstressed for too long and it's causing a shit storm in the in the parts of your parts of your body that control your hormones right that's that's really the way I kind of think of it you know but well and think of the endocrine system the entire system works on feedback loops right so we're constantly your body is constantly monitoring the levels of hormones and reporting back to the brain and saying hey I have this much of this hormone right and then your brain makes decisions like okay well that's not enough so I'm going to trigger this cascade of events that will cause us to make more or it says that's great we can kind of either hold there or even taper off a little bit but when we start to have these things like burnouts when we start to have things like insulin resistance right our our body is saying hey you're not listening to me I said there's enough of this or they're you know in some instances that I said that there's not enough of this right and we continue down that pathway and if you're if your brain can't recognize that there is or is not enough of something those feedback mechanisms start to fail right because no matter how much I tell you you need more insulin because you're eating too much sugar your pancreas is like dude I'm all out like I got nothing else here to give you so your brain can keep pumping out hormones saying I need you to make more insulin I need you to make more insulin I need you to make more insulin and so a lot of times upstream it looks like everything's working like hey the brain is telling you to make it but then downstream you're in your your pancreas is like yeah but I can't do it anymore right yeah and that's where Tai Chi diabetes comes in exactly so when we look at the adrenal pathway it's kind of like hey like we we escaped the Cheetah stop you're not going to get eaten and you're and your adrenals are still constantly sending that signal like with the cheetahs right behind me the cheetahs right behind you the cheetahs right behind you the cheetahs right behind me and so finally the brain is just like we're done here right like we your your bananas there's no cheetah there but our stress levels are telling us that we're perpetually need to be concerned about all of these stressors and so that whole feedback loop and that whole mechanism upstream kind of gets you know perturbed by the fact that we don't have that downstream response that we're looking for yeah and because the endocrine system is a web not a linear chain it then ripples out to other organs right like if you look at how all of these organs communicate it's not just this organ speaks to this organ speaks to this organ it ripples out to every other endocrine organ and this kind of like water droplet type of fact I love that I love that analogy actually because that really helps you visualize that like it is like very much like a spider web and anything that touches on the spider web reverberates across the whole thing I love that I love that visualization actually that's that's super I think that's super helpful how do you how do you categorize stress with with your clients because I typically use the framework of there's internal stresses you know like created in your brain there's ex there's there's external there's external stretch external stresses like the cheetah you know the acute stressors and then there and then there's external systemic stresses which is which is like exercise or you know eating bad that you know whatever in any of those I tend to think of it in those three those three buckets like internal stress levels then the external ones that are acute and then external ones that are more low level or constant how how do you how do you articulate it because I feel like that's not the best way to articulate stresses I'm looking for a better framework so a lot of times when we I used to teach anatomy a little bit here and there and a lot of the times the ways that we explained it to students was like perceived versus physical stress right so like perceived stress it's like you said it's the things that you kind of stress about in your mind that aren't necessarily a tiger's going to eat you right like is a wedding a year people being like oh I'm so nervous my weddings coming up and I'm like why is the wedding cake going to like Godzilla's going to pop out of it like it's just right but like you know we're so worked up about it because it's a perceived stress right so there are these stressors that we place internally on ourselves like you said and then there are these external stressors like something that is actually physically dangerous right like adrenaline rush you get if you like had a near car accident right that's an actual stress and that's an acute stress and then like you said there are these actual kind of background stressors right COVID being a great example or for those of you who may be nervous about politics right like those are those like background stressors that are a little bit of a mixture of like perceived and real writing and I think those are the ones that almost get to people more right because I think that when it's a when it's a tangible acute stressor our body and our brain is better at putting out the fire than right I kind of we've been joking around that I feel like this year has been a lot of I call them medium-sized dumpster fires right and if I could have a million small fires right a million tiny fires and if I just had one big scary problem in front of me I can focus all my energy on fixing that one problem right but when you have all these little background stressors that are not necessarily big enough to be like we have to solve this problem now or something terrible is going to happen those are almost the worst right because that low level chronic stress is really what contributes to kind of that background inflammation because we as humans are designed to deal with stressful events we're designed to deal were even designed to deal with like hey you had a really shitty cheat meal and it was bad for you and there was a lot of terrible stuff in it you have a liver and kidneys and organs that like get rid of toxins for you what we're not good at is that kind of tap perpetually being on that tap of like perpetual exposure to bad things that perpetual exposure to stress and so that one is almost kind of the most difficult to tackle because I feel like that's where that like perpetual low level anxiety comes in and that is one of those background inflamers for most people so what and I know a big part of what you do is is very specific prescriptions for specific people for their very specific and individualized needs but we've also talked a lot about the general you know kind of the general prescription so what what do you feel like is the is the best generalized prescription you can give to an audience you know of well hundreds hopefully thousands of people right what would be your best general advice that people could do to to be more resilient based on what they're putting in their bodies so general advice for me would be eat as little processed food as possible right if you're making your own food a lot of times you can get away with a lot more there's a whole lot of things that you could like cook for yourself that if you made them for yourself versus like you bought them at a store it's a whole different ballgame like I'm not going to tell you you can never have mac and cheese but making mac and cheese versus buying a box of mac and cheese through two very different things so avoiding processed food increasing your produce and your fiber intake I think that the on the whole we do an abysmal job I think that the statistics are something like 92% of Americans don't get the recommended produce and fiber intake and so just balancing our meals to say like hey half of my plate is like fruits and vegetables and then reasonable amounts of whole grains and reasonable amounts of animal products high quality obviously I think that should be like a given that I'm advocating for like quality food if possible yes you've been pretty you've been pretty consistent about that I think pretty consistent about that it's very unbranded for me yeah you know but there's a hierarchy to food right like every step in the right direction matter so like an egg is better than like a fake egg but then an organic egg is better than a regular egg and a pasture egg is better than an organic right so there's always this like hierarchy to quality but like first just starting with real food making real food making the proportions of of your meal you know a lot of your fruits and vegetables a lot of your whole brains a lot of your high quality animal products inappropriate amounts and then really making sure that when we expose ourselves to things like especially you're like fast digesting carbohydrates right as opposed to like your slow carbs but if you're gonna have something that you know is a little bit more of a quick digesting carb making sure we're cognizant of pairing things like fat fiber and protein together right because if you can take things like if you're if you're like hey my wife's gonna make mashed potatoes tonight or I'm gonna make mashed potatoes tonight we're equal opportunity right um then say okay cool it used to be that it was like whoa well don't put butter in it because butter is bad for you nonsense put the grass-fed butter in the potatoes because it's gonna slow down the absorption of those carbs which is going to you need the carbs but you don't want them to spike your blood sugar in this really crazy like blood sugar exactly and it makes more delicious way more delicious right so really looking at like you know the the what what are we eating you know are we eating box mac and cheese or we you know making whole grain pasta with like actual cheese on it um really increasing our our nutrient dense foods right like our our vegetables and whatnot and then looking at that that macro nutrient distribution can we make sure that every snack every right because like even my mom she'll be like hey I'm so good I had like three apples today and I'm like you just ate three apples in one sitting with no other food she's like yeah are they so healthy and I'm like what's your blood sugar look like right now like um and the answer was not good was what we came to find out um I am just complete lack of surprise can we throw some like almond butter on that right so like so just really distributing that like fat fiber protein to make sure that our nutrient profile is a little bit more balanced and then we're not having those repeated insulin spikes because that's like we said that's going to confuse our endocrine system to say well there's just constantly glucose coming at me so I'm constantly pumping out insulin so making our meals well rounded and then just you know have fun with it be I'm not going to tell you guys that I never eat like I I'm very transparent about it I'll be like hey I'm baking cookies for the kids today and people are like how are you're a nutritionist I can't believe you eat cookies like first of all I have children like are you kidding me um yeah we can get through life on like you know oh once in a while I give them a nugget of cocoa nibs and they get through the day like please like they're 5 and 3 like we're gonna have treats here and there um but just you know making it that like some people do the for the reasonable person like an 80 20 is probably fine like if you're eating at home 80% of the time and like dining out or having a cheat meal um I'd say our family's probably closer to to 90 10 just because of the fact that I'm way too far down the rabbit hole to make anything too fun um but you know we do we do make sure that are the the meals that we're eating are delicious and fun and gratifying and I think that's the biggest thing is people get wrapped up in this idea that like healthy eating sucks and it's boring and it tastes bad and then and then they fall off you know what they're doing because they're like I'm sick of eating the same stupid chicken salad 95 days in a row yeah you're exactly um even my dogs eat better than that right um so just making sure that you're you're cooking what you love and take the foods that you love and and and and make those fit into a healthy diet if you're like hey I love pizza like great then find a great homemade whole wheat pizza crust that you like to make and and take it from there right like eat what you love but make it fit into a better picture of what a nutritious diet looks like right like I don't want it you're not going on a diet to to be skinny right you're you're going on a diet to properly nourish this incredible machine that you've been given to navigate life with yeah that's a big piece of the mindset component of it that I think a lot of us struggle with right is uh I don't eat I don't eat uh well because I hate my body well because I love my body I think you just post it on on Instagram you know recently I like that a lot and um we talked a little bit about the food politics thing so I want to give you a chance to to tell people like a couple of tips on how you can make eating well more affordable because it's it's not as it's not as hard as as I think people think it is but it is a real constraint that some people do have especially right now um so what are like your best tips for how can you eat well on on the cheap right as as well as you can afford on the cheap how can you eat a little bit better uh how can you save more money how can you still nourish your body but also not below your whole paycheck your whole but yeah right shopping a whole paycheck yeah uh so a lot of the things that I do um if I find things that I consistently like to eat um I first of all invest in it in a chest freezer if you can because there is so much you can do in terms of like hey uh they had a huge sale on grass fed meat right you can freeze meat for like six months at a time so I do a couch chair going yes we've done half hogs we've done quarter cows you know it's it's a great way to if you can get them to you know get that hanging weight priced down after the butcher it it's really great but even just um you know going to the store there's a certain brand of tortillas that we like because my husband is gluten sensitive and I I kind of like pocket buying them because they're expensive but every once in a while they'll go on sale and I'm like cool I'm going to buy eight packages and throw them in the freezer and now I don't have to feel so guilty when they're half as much as they would be um I also I get a lot of flat from this from um a lot of other kind of dietician minded people a lot of people like to meal plan because then they feel like they go to the store and they're like well only buy the things I need and I'm like okay well I have an idea in my head of like our staples right I have a very good handle on like what my kids like what they'll eat what we always have in the house at any given time yeah but I don't want to make my meal plan so specific that I've boxed myself into like well I've decided we're gonna make this particular fish and that fish isn't on sale and now I've planned my whole menu around this I like to go over the store and be like okay um let's look at what produces on sale and let's start to kind of meal plan in our head around that let's look at what meat is I mean meat is going to be most of the time your biggest in terms of like per pound expense so I'll go to the butcher and the fishmonger first and be like okay this week lamb shanks are on sale or this week snappers on sale now I'm making those two things and now I'm planning the rest of my meals around what do I want to serve with that um there are certain vegetables shop in season right that's one thing I was going to say is actually as a big who was a produce buyer I can actually tell you that shopping in season gets you higher quality produce at a lower price point because it's actually cheapest one it's most harvestable um and so there's a reason strawberries are super expensive in the wintertime and they're also shitty because they're because the earth the earth isn't producing as many of them so there's a lower there's a lower the lower supply of available ones so the quality ones are even more expensive and the shitty ones are that are available are extra shitty but you're still going to pay like nine dollars a pint for them and it's ridiculous but in the summer in the summertime they'll be like four bucks because everybody's got strawberries and that's when that's when the quality is highest so shopping in season definitely shopping in season I definitely I do the same thing with produce like I love honey crisp apples as much as an ex-person but what I do is I only buy them in the fall when they're in season and when they're on sale on top of that and other than that there's nine thousand varieties of apples so why don't I look at the ones that are on sale this week and buy those um there's only two harvests of apples every year did you know that six there's there's two yeah only two unless you're buying like very very locally but if you're buying at a grocery store there's one there's one of those those those two big harvests yeah there's likely they likely they likely have been in storage for a couple of months but that's that's just a that's a whole other rabbit hole we could go down with my knowledge of the supply chain and and produce in particular but that's a well actually that cracks me up because you were telling me you're a knows-to-tail guy and I'm the same way but that's because my family is Czech they grew up in the Czech Republic in in the 60s during the occupation and so um one you don't waste anything right like I was taught that you eat everything like you said I've I have like nightmares of my grandfather forcing me to eat tripe soup when I was a kid I still think that's like one thing that I won't eat but I we do eat that you know the lengua we eat everything um but my mom would tell me stories about how apples were the big thing when it was winter time in the Czech Republic because it was like the one thing that you could put in the cellar and an apple would like stay relatively decent through the the entire season so um they they do they they're very hearty fruit yes um but you know like if it's if it's coming down to like pink ladies or galas I'm not gonna like that's not the hill that I'm gonna die on I'm gonna buy the ones around just don't give me a red delicious because those things are merely and wrong they're just they shouldn't even be a thing anymore sorry apple snobbery yeah we're so high we're so bougie with it then I do things like you know I like every good you know shopper who has children I do my my my warehouse shopping right I'll go to Costco and I'll be like okay they're obsessed with this brand of cracker and so I'm gonna you know we like these almond flour crackers and it's like all right I'm gonna go buy four boxes of this today or um uh I also I'm known for like my multiple my multiple stores right if I need this I go to this store if I need this I go to this store because I know uh where I can get my product uh cheaper right like it might be cheaper this product is cheaper at shader joes and this one I can only get it whole foods because it's the only place they sell it and these I buy at Costco and and it just if budget is a constraint um then then that's kind of how uh you have to thank you there are also just healthy foods that are just inherently cheaper than others right like if you um if you want to eat grass-fed beef um but you're not gonna pay 1899 a pound for for you know steak you can do a hell of a lot with ground beef ground grass-fed ground beef is is a health food and I can make six seven infinite number of meals around that one you know one cut and I don't have to sit there and say well it has to be a chuck roast or it has to be a sirloin I save those kind of from the special occasions right and if you're and if you're more flexible with the macros because you're eating a more balanced approach you haven't eliminated a whole macro then suddenly the fattier cuts which are usually cheaper because you because people they're not the sexy cuts that you're unless you're talking about a ribeye right that's a fatty cut that's the sexy but like but when you're but when you're talking like you can go get you know you can go get uh you know pork you know pork butt that's you know really really cheap if you're not scared of fat right or you can you know you can eat pigs feet like you could like there's all sorts of there's all sorts of things you can do if you if especially if you learn and the thing that's so funny to me is like we talk about like your ethnic background and like there are so many delicious foods that people around the world eat from from unsexy cuts of meat but if you if you learn how how they're cooked like you can make amazing amazing food I mean like pork cheek is one of the most delicious cuts of meat that you'll ever eat but people are like pork cheek and it's not and it's and it's not expensive either and so we have this you know conflation of price with price with quality and it's not necessarily it's just demand usually more more so than more so than quality but anyway so well thank you so much I want to be respectful of your time I know you've got I know you've got the kids are sleeping right now but I know you've probably got plenty of other things to do and I know John would probably like to would probably like to see you it is you know it is a Saturday night so I really appreciate you taking the time but I want to give you a couple of minutes to you know plug your plug your company and tell people how they can find you how they can hire you how they can follow your blog you know read the stuff you put out there because you you put great content out there a lot of helpful stuff on Instagram and you know I know there's I know there's more to come because you you kind of just recently launched the new nutrition company so you know take the last couple of minutes here and talk about your talk about your new company thank you yeah I'm so excited so can't be only nutrition is my new kind of nutrition consulting company the idea actually came just through the fact that with everything kind of moving virtual and people being comparable in that virtual space I really just saw an opportunity to increase my reach I'm obviously licensed in the state of Illinois so I'm offering actual medical nutrition therapy diagnostic nutrition therapy to those in in the state of Illinois but I'm doing coaching virtually basically to the entire United States just teaching people how to eat and all the things we've been talking about right so how to shop how to meal plan how to nourish properly how to get your kids to eat things right like I'll get people telling me my kids won't eat this and I'm like will you wait it until they were tanned introducing that so that's good luck but I'm on Instagram at Dr... Kristina Campione with a cake with a cake yes I'll put it in the show I'll put it in the show I'll put it in the show notes so my website is drcampione.com you'll learn all about us is john ok with that because you're not the only drcampione even in your house it's a point of contention well maybe you could sell on the website later see right yeah so yeah you'll learn about what we're doing here we're teaching people all the things about eating healthy there's a lot here too about what we're doing I like I said I have backyard chickens I keep bees I call myself like a confirmed farmer yeah yeah so yeah we focus on just teaching people how to kind of navigate this really complicated system and how to kind of sidestep all of this misinformation and just learn how to properly nourish and fuel their bodies whether they're a mom or an athlete or you know if they're looking to help their families diet like we said there's some general rules for everybody but in terms of individualizing it to make it realistic make it re affordable and make it actually attainable for you know yourself or your family because what's the point of giving you all this nutritious food if it's something that you don't want to eat so looking at customizing it to making it catered to you right now I'm actually delving into helping kids who have like sensory food sensitivities and taking the foods that they're willing to eat and trying to create nutritious combinations of the things that they're already willing to eat so it's really about like individualizing what that person or what that family needs are and like I said there's very soon I'll be I'll be hoping to launch a podcast of my own I'm blogging on the website I'm always pulling out new Instagram content so really excited to see where this all goes fantastic well I'm really excited to see where it all goes as well and I can I can vouch that you know she knows she knows her stuff really really well and hopefully you got a sense of that on today's podcast and especially if you're in Illinois definitely definitely look her up if you are in Illinois because that's the face to face you'll I think you'll really really appreciate but she has a deep deep deep breath of knowledge in this in this area of especially when it comes to holistic nutrition and how it can affect your your movement and we didn't even we didn't even get into your athletic and movement background very much today because that's like I said we'll have to do it we'll have to do around two because you also have expertise in that as well but you're talking me up so much man I mean I I'm a I'm an encore a imparrow believer like I'm always learning so if I don't have the answers the one thing you can trust me for is that I will go research the living shit out of them I I'm not good with leaving an answer unturned so I think we're very similar to that respect that I don't know yeah I'm not afraid to admit that I don't know but I will hunt for the answer until I find it or it will kill me says the girl who would tumble on a stress fracture shocking absolutely well thank you so much Kristina I really appreciate your time and I had a great I had a great great time uh with this conversation so thank you very much I look forward to talking to you again soon and when we're able to travel again I can't I can't wait to see you and you and John and the kids you know hopefully when the world turns right side up fingers fingers fingers crossed so thank you very much have a great rest of your night and we'll talk soon thanks you too bye thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright if you have a question please email me at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club at gmail.com follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club on Twitter at tckbclub online at Twinsidyskettlebellclub.com and please help us grow our reach and give us a review on Apple podcasts Spotify Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts until next time