Jay Perkins & Chad Price | Kettlebell Kings founders, entrepreneurs

Hey guys, coach Jordan here. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the platform podcast. My guests today are Jay Perkins and Chad Price from Kettlebell Perkins and I wanted to add a little disclaimer at the front end of this because Integrity is a core value of mine And I wanted to make sure that you're aware that I am an affiliate for Kettlebell Perkins and the reason for that is because I believe in their brand I believe in their quality standards and I've been using their Kettlebells for many many years now over over eight years now and I own about 23 of them and I have owned many other brands in the past and I have just found that the Kettlebell Perkins quality, consistency, customer service and Value is is the best at least for me I love the way that their bells feel and the way that they fit my body That is not to say that other brands aren't good I just prefer the Kettlebell Perkins brand and that's why they are the only brand that I am affiliated with And you don't pay any extra if you buy a Kettlebell Perkins Kettlebell with my affiliate link or use my discount code you actually get a discount as the discount code would imply so I will put my affiliate link in the episode notes and my discount code is TCKB and you get 10% off your order for anything from Kettlebell Perkins or from living.fit So I hope you enjoy the episode and you get to hear a little bit about their journey and How they started the company and lessons on entrepreneurship and how that can translate into everyday life Please enjoy thanks. All right. Welcome into the platform podcast today's episode is literally being brought to you by Kettlebell Perkins Because my guests today are Chad Price and Jay Perkins of Kettlebell Perkins I'm very excited to have them on we're gonna talk about how they went from Recent college graduates to deciding they were going to start their own Kettlebell company and the adventures of being an entrepreneur and The fun of Kettlebells. So Chad Jay welcome in to the platform podcast. I really appreciate you guys coming on Thank you for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us Jordan So tell us a little bit about how you guys met and what Presipitated the launch of Kettlebell Perkins. Let's hear a little bit about the origin story. Chad, why don't you go ahead? Kettlebell Perkins is actually three of us that own the company J and I are two of the the main operators of the day-to-day Perkins in an overall direction of the company itself. We also partner with another guy that I went to college with a Price down in Houston We've all known each other since we were ATJ went to UT and we used to come down Austin and hang out and just you know became good parents in college After college, we really decided that you know, we were gonna kind of stay in touch and we went into corporate America in our separate directions and had different jobs and Kind of different sectors Construction oil and gas kind of you name it. I think I think between the three of us. We've all tried it J happened to actually be in e-commerce sales when we finally decided that kind of corporate America wasn't the The direction that we were gonna be able to stay in for the rest of our lives with the rest of our young adult lives. However you want to look at that And so it gave us a lot of insight into how e-commerce works and how many companies were out there How much revenue they were making so we kind of made a commitment to ourselves while we were still working our corporate job that you know We were gonna come up with something that Whatever it was we were gonna sell it on my started kind of narrowing down a long list that we had amongst ourselves and Kind of else was probably one of the the best ideas on there Our backgrounds kind of all are in fitness Bubba and I actually played football together in college So you know, we were also looking for tools and things like that where basically we could Still work out from home, but then also You know getting good shape and still kind of move some weight around and nothing kettlebells kind of fit that niche at the time so Once we decided that you know, no one was really Kind of taken advantage of what we considered the The online marketing and kind of the cool factor behind building the community of kettlebell enthusiasts You know, we decided to pull the trigger Jay's a and I'm sure I could go on a day that Jay's anything you add to this Yeah, that's a pretty accurate depiction You know when we got into our mid-20s We actually started holding meetings once a week where we would just discuss business ideas with each other And you know, we kick around all kinds of ideas for over a year Before setting on kettlebells and think what really led to that was The experience that I had working at the e-commerce company selling software You know rule number one is you want to have a niche market And so just didn't see a lot of people trying to start businesses specifically around that nation building an entire lifestyle around it And then like a lot of people, you know, we had our first exposure to kettlebells through CrossFit You know, it's embarrassing to say now, but like I was this guy at lifetime fitness swinging dumbbells like up over my head That's what the CrossFit blog posted for the day So You could see that they were becoming popular Seemed like they actually had real science and use behind them And then at some point with a lot of this, you just got to do it and you just got to go for it So that's what we decided to do So I got to ask what were some of the other ideas? What could have been rather than kettlebell kings? What was plan B or plan C? Like what were the other options that you guys were considering? Sock kings We were going to make it rocking, but yeah, we were We kicked on the idea of doing like a, you know, socks So just like you've seen the company stance that is real popular now with sock designs You know, we we thought that would be an idea We all like wearing socks like that That was probably the one that we came closest to doing besides that There were other products You know, honestly, we did consider doing just different types of random random ideas that I almost embarrassed to say I allow I've been in a lot of those entrepreneurial meetings and there are no bad ideas in a brainstorm You know, that's what you tell everybody So nobody's afraid to throw out ideas and then you get some you get some crazy you get some crazy ideas So I'm glad that it's kettlebells and not socks because as much as I love flashy socks Wouldn't help me nearly as much stay in shape during the quarantine and stay at home orders that yeah You know, we just didn't have the eliteration down one of the reasons we decided to name the company kettlebell kings was When we first started we had no experience like importing sourcing products or anything like that And so we thought Well, what we will do is we're going to go to all the kettlebell brands that exist and we're going to buy wholesale from them We're going to come like this kettlebell super store And so Kettlebell kings was supposed to be a play on that like hey, we've got all the kettlebells like we're the kings We have them all, you know, yeah, yeah one stop shop for all things kettlebell Yeah, so Every brand of kettlebell that you see out there today that's you know a decent sized player in the market That was what we originally thought we were going to do was buy those wholesale and then just Outmarket and redistribute them and so that combined with the eliteration and kettlebell kings is How we decided on the company name, but had we done socks? I guess it could have been like sock sultans or Like that. That's yeah, that's the origin now nice. So You you you both you both were athletes did did you play did you play ball at UT or did you did you don't do another sport at UT? I know Chad was was playing at rice. Did you also do sports in college? No, just intermural so my my athletic career died out after high school I was a mainly a baseball player Uh, and then just tried to relive the glory by playing Intermural softball and flag football in college nice Chad did you did you get exposed to kettlebells when you were when you were training at rice? Like my first exposure was a little just a little bit in college and we're probably in similar age I was you know in the early 2000s I got to swing a few heavy kettlebells just as an adjunct to our strength and conditioning training You know playing football in college did did you get any exposure at rice to kettlebells or was it all barbell and dumbbell stuff there? Yeah, no, I never got any exposure You know, I graduated rice in 2007. So So I'm a little bit I'm a little bit older than you but not by much And what's what position did you play at rice? I played strong safety okay Yeah, and uh are the partner played pretty much every other every position A speedy guy he played a running back cornerback safety In track he ran track. He's in track. Yeah, he's one of these guys that like He might not work out, but he can walk in the warehouse and then press a 48 kilogram It's insane. Yeah, one of those just genetic freaks that just can is is gifted at at everything that he does I had a I had a friend like that in college as well And one of one of the guys that I played against was actually my kind of my nemesis because I was a center and he was a nose guard And no matter what I did no matter how hard I trained He was always like five pounds stronger than me. He was always he was always bigger than he's always gonna be bigger than me But then like I started throwing shot put you know for For track and field he didn't even come out until sophomore year And I'd been working so hard to get to get up to 50 feet And I was I was really really close and he came out the first day of practice And he hadn't thrown in senses like junior year high school he comes on throws of you know 50 50 and a half You know, and I was like I'm done. I'm gonna go play rugby now Because I wasn't even gonna be the top thrower on my team anymore and the rugby team had been recruiting me really hard It was funny same same kind of guy just just a freak athlete didn't even have to train hard and he could just Just strong as a bowl. So that's always fun when you that's always fun when you when you see those those type of athletes So that's Bubba right Bubba's the the third Bubba heard. He's the he's the third king. I guess we'd say yeah If you ever meet him calling big arm, but we we call him now Okay All right fantastic So obviously kettlebells are basically you know gold right now because there's a huge challenge with the supply chain Getting them in from from Chad because most most Our manufactured in in Chad for almost every manufacturer right especially for competition style bells How are you guys doing with that? I know you've I know you've had to pivot a little bit and Chad to had to really change some of your operating process talk a little bit about what the what the pandemic has has brought as far as new challenges for For your supply chain and how that's how that's really affected affected you guys I think you know that I think the pandemic has been a challenge for everyone You know, I think obviously it's very unfortunate Well, we're everyone's having to go through right now in terms of you know the mental and this kind of physical and kind of Emotional things they come along with quarantine and pandemics and things like that For the this industry in itself before the homework out industry It's kind of been a blessing in terms of the amount of people interested in our products and in this industry But it's presented a whole another set of challenges because of this supply chain not being necessarily prepared And then having to go through that during a pandemic so You know once the quarantine was announced in March We sold out pretty quickly after that within with you know within a product say a matter of hours if not days Or just the days not ours, but then from there every consecutive order that we've had we're pretty much Going waiting list to waiting list just because there's so much demand out there. So We have right now kind of you know Enough time in between when they announced it and talking to our manufacturers and really trying to gear up for this holiday season So we do think we've kind of curve some of that demand over the summer But really moving into the holiday season we should have more kettlebells coming in pretty much than anybody in the world I would think yeah supply chain has always been Chad to manage you know That's probably been one of the hardest parts of this business We've been super fortunate in that we've been able to grow every year We've been in business But there still is some amount missing because we've Always gone through times where we didn't have products. I mean It's only in the last two years that we've gotten our out of stock times down to like less than 30 days But there were years in the past where we would be out of like 16 kilos like four or five months So that's always been a challenge the challenge this time around is one so many people are trying to sell kettlebells right now and The factories that we get our stuff made from currently They don't necessarily think in terms of like I'm going to be you know super loyal to these guys They just want to take as many orders as they can and in a way it helps them diversify their business so that As as we continue to grow they're not solely dependent on us So that presented its own set of issues to try to work through and negotiate through and About a couple months ago. We did get it some deals in place where we do expect to have A pretty steady supply for the time going forward and chats a hundred percent accurate when he says we We should have more kettlebells coming in than anyone in the world and that's basically started over the last couple weeks We've had three or four containers arriving for a week So I actually I actually worked in the logistics and supply chain industry for for a long time I actually grew up in that industry and so for a lot of people aren't aren't aware The lag time that it takes even from a global forwarding perspective the lag time it takes from Order receipt to order processing to order getting packed to getting it to the port to getting it through customs release in Chad to then getting it onto a container You know six six to ten weeks to get it across the ocean then in customs on the other side And then to centralize distribution unpacking And distributed to your DCs throughout the country right that's that's a lot of A lot of steps in the process a lot of places where things can go haywire especially when you're talking about multiple jurisdictions and multiple customs processes International governments and their relationships and we know our relationship with Chad has been a bit fraught will say of of late Have you guys have you guys Do you guys have a primary supplier? Do you have multiple suppliers in Chad or or and you know in the same way that that they're kind of different trying to diversify their business So have you guys have you guys tried to add suppliers on your side as well or is that challenging due to due to quality standards? I'm really glad that you've raised all these points. It's fantastic things to talk about because one of the common questions We've gotten throughout the situation is well, why don't you just take pre-orders like You know, why don't you just allow us to pay for the kettlebell now and you ship it when you get it and the answer is because our waiting list at this point is Has been 60 70 80,000 people deep and with all the Issues that you just mentioned that can happen and try and to manage a global supply chain That can really throw off what people's expectations are right and so that's been another tough challenge to manage over the past few years Is how do you let people know when stuff is supposed to be here? And how do you time when you let them make orders and that type of thing? So thank you for allowing us to mention that the reason that we you know have not always made those available because it's it's trying to manage the supply chain As far as diversity yeah, we have a few different sources Quality is the hardest part of that so We might be working with a factory for six to eight months behind the scenes before we actually start getting something done with them And that's because we just go through a super rigorous process of One we have to get the exact same molds remade so because we place such a high emphasis on quality customers have an expectation of that from us and we can't simply go and just say to a factory They get us some kettlebells and that's what a lot of these Companies are trying to do right now in order to make sales They're just going to these factories that have existing molds and just getting their logo slapped on them, right? But what we have to do because we have specific models that people expect from If we're going to bring a new factory online we have to have them remake our molds so that there are multiple factories with our copies of our molds That itself is a six to eight week process just to make the molds you know add another couple of weeks to get them approved A sign off on them get different test runs that type of thing and even then Because we've had bad experiences importing in the past when we first started you know we'll get a very small run Just in case they are bad That there's not a lot of people affected So yeah, we have diverse by the supply chain as much as we can you know for many years We did look at getting stuff made in America that was a big goal of ours for a long time But you know, we were quoted anywhere from half a million to a million dollars to get a line started And that was just not something we were capable of at those times Yeah, and it's it's an interesting thing to one of the things that I hadn't really thought about Until recently was you know, I just got my 14 my 14 kilo You know 33 millimeter handle one for my wife Thank you, by the way She doesn't really know it's for her yet, but it's part of my master plan to get her starting lifting kettlebells when she finishes grad school But One thing I didn't even think about is like oh, I unpacked it at my house like If you could have a full container full of kettlebells which I don't even know how many bells would be in it in a container I would imagine you know tens of thousands would be in one ocean container You can't open all of those and check all of them So how do you how do you handle the challenges of spot checking your your QC You know before and after they've they've shipped across the ocean like what does that process even look like where do they get where do they get QC And and how do you guys how do you guys handle that challenge Yeah on both sides and like you said you can still miss it so It pains us greatly if someone opens a box from us and it's not pristine Know whether that's from carrier damage, you know during shipping it got tossed around or if it's clearly some kind of manufacturing issue It's extremely rare. I mean, I would say less than 1% of our stuff, but At a certain volume you know whenever I get tagged in a customer service email From one of our guys because we want to stay on top of that we have to know that so we can see on top of the process It's just excruciatingly painful on our insights To know that someone got less than a pristine product from us To try to protect as much as possible. We do have QC in Chad So we we do have an independent contractor who we have go and inspect stuff before it's boxed up And he's under strict instructions to toss out anything that is not up to our standard He has copies and molds and images of what we expect you know all the way down from a crisp logo with what the paint should look like So he does it on that side and then we do open up samples here when we get them here just to check as well And you know again when you're when you're talking thousands of kettlebells, you know You can still miss them, but that is the process and now on top of that is extremely vetting the factories You know like we said making sure it's our mold making sure they provide a lot of samples And then just dipping our toes in the water before going in full with someone Now is I know you mentioned you mentioned some of the the challenges of setting up an American line And it sounds like now kind of on the back side of some of this there is renewed Interest in made in America products and people understanding some of the limitations of a of an international supply chain Are you guys are you guys re investigating that down the road or is that something you've kind of put on the back burner Until until it becomes more economically feasible You know, I think this you know the demand and kind of increase interest in the home workout and kind of minimal space kind of community Is is is really having us reevaluate that so we have been you know in talks with American manufacturers with What that would look like we have we haven't came to in a formal like in in kind of formal product as of yet But it is something that you know is on is on this able kind of an open discussion right now Excellent yeah, and I would say It's it's still not easy to get good stuff made here We have gone as far as getting samples from boundaries here And just quite honestly the product that we've been importing has been higher quality Um, and we have had in the past even before the pandemic, you know We were doing this two three years in our business trying to find boundaries here because we we told you about supply chain issues Many foundries were just not interested in the business Many foundries would not Agree to our strict wait adherence, you know, we guarantee 0.3 kilograms weight or we replace the bell So they wouldn't agree to that um and a lot of them are not necessarily set up to Create the right mold so even like a big manufacturer here a lot of them Will have a much rougher in product that doesn't require the level of detail so Even the chat is is absolutely correct and yeah, we've been exploring it We've been in talks we're continuing to try to finalize that process That that just has not been any easier than sourcing and oversize Yeah, I mean you got you guys aren't making a very precise product and in particular I mean the the fitness bells the cast iron bells are certainly also precise products But they're not as precise as the competition bells But especially when you start talking about competition bells where You know the dynamic the dimensions have to be within a number of millimeters or they don't pass They don't pass regulation for you know being approved for competition And then as you mentioned the weight variance is also is also huge You know because you guys do the gravity casting right where it's hollow on the inside. So that's a that's a pretty precise technical Technique right that's not something that just any foundry can do Yeah, that's that's correct and so you know Again, this is where because we've built a brand so highly focused on quality and precise models That's what again makes this a little bit more challenging where there We've all seen them. There are some companies who are getting kettlebells made here now And that's great. I'm glad they're doing it But because they don't have a history of a certain mold and quality that people expect They can just oftentimes just start getting a product made right away Um for us it's Been a lot harder to try to find those exact precise measurements Yeah, I can understand you know as somebody who bought my first kettlebell kings Bell I think back in like 2012 or 2013 and now I'm up to Well with the new edition. I think I'm up to 23 you know bells if one if one showed up That was not the same shape as what I'm used to I'd be like What the crap like this is like this is why I bought all kettlebell kings is because I want the I want the consistent experience I want the same window size. I want it to sit on the same place on my hand right like that's that's why I have Invested in your competition bells because they're worth the investment in their consistent and I know what I'm getting every time And I get the same lifting experience whether I'm lifting with a 12 kilo or whether I'm lifting with my 32 kilo I know it's gonna I know the dynamics are gonna be the same I know the handle dimensions are gonna be the same It's gonna it's gonna sit on the same place on my wrist and that's that's why I get competition bells from you guys So I can completely understand that that's a big part of your brand Identity is that consistency and commitment to quality You know, we joke some times that'd be nice if we never never focus on quality because then we could just be turning out all kinds before right now, but We're glad we've gone the way we have Yeah, so that commitment to quality is clearly part of your guys's core values What are some of the other core values that you guys aspire to for kettlebell kings and for your companies? I mean, I think there's quite a few You know, I think the commitment to quality is kind of The kind of one of the values that I think we share as for Anton general You know when we were when we were thinking about starting a company one of the things that was pretty clear across the borders You know, we didn't want to sell you know cheap crap to the world We didn't want to Go in and kind of deceive or trick people we were really trying to find you know an area where we felt like We could really bring a lot of value and help improve people's eyes and help improve You know, your overall experience here In the in the little time that we get to enjoy together on this earth So in doing that I think health and wellness as a whole is kind of been always been the theme around our companies So even though kettlebell kings was a kettlebell focused company from the very beginning We still saw it as a way to enter health and wellness. So You can see a lot of that now expanding with our living fit brand And you know other pieces of equipment and things like that that we're doing as well Um, but yeah, I think that's the general theme that we all share as owners Yeah, I was just I was just gonna ask you about that the you know talk a little bit about the the pivot to or not really pivot to but the addition the expansion into The digital the digital training space with the the living dot fit brand I know that was a that was a labor of love that probably Took you guys a little bit of time to build to and be ready for tell us a little bit about that process When did you guys start kicking around that expansion? And how long did it take to prep before you're ready to launch it And how's it been gone since since you launched We've been working on it for a few years already Because of you know because of some of the logistical issues we faced importing kettlebells We decided that as far as expansion goes we were not interested in getting more weight products Um, you know for the for the majority of our business the first three four years It was Chad and I Unloading containers of kettlebells by hand God, that's a workout. Yeah millions of pounds Chad and I both have personally unloaded literally millions and millions of pounds of kettlebells We didn't have a forklift. They were always expensive You know And just the warehouse we're operating out of wasn't even super conducive to moving around a forklift so we Literally would unload these things by hand. They would come double stack on crates And um, we would have to break down the top crate put it move it onto a separate pallet and wheel that in and then we'll have the second one In my my hands hurt just thinking about that. Oh your hands are shopping in the day Because you're doing just farmer carries all day long holding them by the plastic straps that come on the boxes You know and usually at those times we were having to run pre-sales and so Literally as soon as we unload the container. It's okay turn around and start shipping them out and so you know You're just moving everything so much in a day All that to say we're just like, you know Let's let's make our our next product offering digital so that we don't have you're like not maces So I don't want to have to unload those. Yeah, so you know, let's let's not have to worry about the The trouble of a global supply chain. You know, let's not have to worry about The work that goes into story and unloading all that kind of stuff. You know, let's let's work on digital Even from the beginning creating helpful content for People was a part of our company You know, we've always published to our blog We've always partnered with experts in kettlebell sport and other lifting to bring great content So it was about three and a half years ago that we Really started making plans for building out a digital platform that sole focus was workouts And you know like anything business. It takes a lot of time in planning and there's a lot of Adjustments to be made on the job So you know, even now they're so tweaks that we're making to the site all the time In the last year we hired a couple trainers full-time Marcus Martinez and Aaron Guyette To be kettlebell and doubt our experts and build around them. So it's gone well We're very pleased with it. You know, we had certification deals in place with some of the major gym chains where we were teaching their trainers kettlebell certifications the one that we've created with Marcus You know before the pandemic we were doing live events. We had 12 scheduled with one of the major gym chains this year We had been approved at three others and we picked our first dates out with a couple of them as well So overall, it's gone well, but just like our kettlebell products. We know that it can be better So we're working on a giant website revamp right now To make the user experience even better. We're working on an app for it To make the user experience even better And continue to strive to make it the best possible workouts to experience people can have It's awesome. Yeah, it's a great. It's a great platform for for people that aren't familiar the the URL is just living.fit And it's it is all online workouts with battle ropes kettlebells. There's also some there's also some nutrition content on there as well from Oh, I can't remember her name Stephanie, I believe Stephanie over goes though. Yeah, she's she's got some she's got some great like holistic lifestyle and and Nutrition guidance on there as well for for people so it's It's a subscription-based platform, but a lot of good content And they also put a lot of free content as well. So I definitely recommend you know, check it out It's a good place to go get started to learn about kettlebells and and some of the the basics that can get you started I think it's a I think it's a great platform So it's good to hear you guys are continuing to to improve it and look look at ways to expand it and improve improve the experience for the user at the end That's yeah, but if you like it and we've been really pleased with the reviews so far for some of the workout programs We've put out with Marcus like kettlebell origins, which is kind of a basics Double gains, which is a lot of double bellwork those reviews are available on the Kinoa Perkins website But people seem to really like them a lot and the best part is is we've gotten some good constructive feedback about some of the Programs as well. So there's a lot of in-game adjustments that we've made So to speak to make me even better and that's the driving course behind it I'm even working on a new website and an app that'll solve some of those But the other reason we started it is because we did start to ask ourselves a few years ago was Well, what if there was something that was a major Interruption that to the kettlebell supply chain like how could we still do well enough to keep operating Or keep growing even so there's a principle called optionality um An anti-projility that you know I read a lot about and so that was the goal of Let's say that there was really high tariffs or let's say that nobody wanted kettlebells anymore or let's say that We we had to cut prices on our kettlebells and our margins just weren't there anymore because We've always accepted as an inevitability that people will start catching up for our quality So how could we still continue to grow as a business? And that was the I that was one of the other driving forces behind creating that was how can we create this potential upside for our business Even if there's problems with selling kettlebells Yeah, that diversification that diversification of risk is always Is always a huge part of being an entrepreneur and trying to anticipate where your competitors might come after you So a tough balancing act between where are you strongest and how do you continue to grow and focusing on on where your competitors might come after you But also, you know, how do we how do we continue to do what makes us better? You can you can overly focus on on what you think your competitors might do and then you lose focus on your own Execution, but you also can't ignore your competitors. It's a tough razor's edge to walk Yep, it really is and for us it's It's life and death. It's how we make our living, you know And there's literal blood, sweat and tears poured into this business, you know And it's been one of the most rewarding, but challenging things of our lives So you're 100% right. We're always thinking about, you know, how can we continue to to grow and protect what we've created because it means so much to us Yeah Chad, you you have a company that you're that you're involved with is what called life life grows green correct Yeah, yeah, I do Can can you talk a little bit about that? I'm not nearly as familiar with that and I'm I'm interested to I'm interested to hear more about that Yeah, I mean that's a that's a Separately from killable kings and in living fit from that I guess umbrella But it's basically a kind of a natural supplement company company that's a lifestyle and We do sell like you know CBD products and really any kind of natural supplement that you would think of our main goal is just to bring Bring a more fit kind of healthier lifestyle mentality to any natural supplements Obviously, there's a lot of controversial natural supplements that are out there like CBD for example They're really just bringing nature into What you're doing in trying to live a healthier or more well lifestyle So you're you're one of those people that's the serial entrepreneur one one company is one company is not enough So gotta have gotta have multiple multiple irons in the fire in case your stress level wasn't high enough Yeah, exactly It's funny you say that because people people make fun of me because I actually recently had to shut down I owned a nelson on as well here in Austin, but due to the pandemic and COVID it just didn't make sense anymore So we actually had to kind of Shut that down temporarily. I guess or probably indefinitely at this point Just just due to due to the pandemic so the the whole entrepreneur or you know Coronavirus rollercoaster has just been kind of ups and downs everywhere, but like Jay says we kind of It's kind of part of the business part of the The thing that we signed up for so we're always looking forward to new challenges and you know diversifying and even when it comes to having diversifying your own companies, I think is always a good idea Absolutely, well, I'm sorry to hear that you had to close close down your salon. That's that's never fun never fun experience One of I think one of the things about being an entrepreneur is at least in my experience most entrepreneurs I know are terrible employees So it's probably it's probably good that you have multiple multiple places to to pour your energy You know, I think Jay and I probably are both the same in that regard. It's like we're great employees But just for a limited time. So What's you know once we figure it out? It's like okay, what do I do next because if you just put me in a room You know tell me to keep putting putting a square peg in a square hole then I'm not gonna stay there for a while I know that I know that challenge very very well. So I can completely relate to that What what would you guys say is the like the biggest Lessons that entrepreneurial realism Takes then could translate to it to regular life You know, what what is it that anybody could be could take from entrepreneurialism and apply it to their regular life? Oh wow, I think Yes Go ahead Jay. You want to go first? You go ahead. I was saying wow, that's I'll say so it's so many things I think Jay and I talk about this all the time You know, we actually just brought an intern on from rice here recently when we were talking about that This kind of exact topic is what kind of life lessons or Kind of concepts and principles would trickle down or it would even help someone When they're first trying to get into entrepreneurship to understand what they're getting to and kind of make the most of it I think tenacity is you know a big one just having the mentality that no matter what is going to happen It has to happen. There is no such things in that happening You know, I think a lot of people get up in the morning and the reason they get up is because or the reason they go to work is because they're expecting some type of paycheck or some type of Financial reward for their efforts for that day and entrepreneurship requires a lot more Conceptual thinking and vision Then I think most people are used to so, you know, you really have to reward yourself with your You know your work ethic and your your goal setting or your projects that you're completing versus, you know thinking about The the financial part of it, you know, you get to that point if you complete your goal if you don't complete your goal then You know, it's it's it's nothing you get zero. It's very it's very very zero sum Yeah, and it makes it makes it it honestly it makes it thrilling and it makes it challenging and I think you know When you have a competitive spirit, especially you know when me coming from sports, you know entrepreneurship is my new football, you know, it's You know, I love competing. So I didn't I didn't like practice and running just like everybody else But the the game time when the lights came on and it was time to compete and someone won and someone lost like I I love the thrill of that And so you know, I think entrepreneurship kind of takes that same approach where The lights are always on when you wake up in the morning There's there's an endless amount of things that you could be doing to move your company forward every single day for the rest of your life If you want it to be in how strategic are you are getting those things done and staying focused on the big picture and moving things forward J would you add to that? Yeah, I think you had the nail in the head with tenacity um I think that's something that can apply in business or everyday life You just got to be relentless about pursuing your goal Um, you know, I invested in a business about the same time that we started this business I invested in another one that actually had a lot better metrics than we did when we first started a lot higher conversion rates Tracking numbers the sales numbers were not quite there yet, but because of that reason the person who was in charge decided to fold up shop You know after five six months and go back to working um and For us, I think it was just we just weren't willing to quit and so we were just going to do whatever it took you when we got started I mean, you know, we were working 15 16 hours a day Whether it's replying to customer questions writing blog posts making post um, you know, making social posts setting up landing pages setting up Email workflows um scouting new products and so it was just being relentless about it And I think that type of attitude can certainly help in in anything you do because I think all of us get tired We all have a limited amount of bandwidth But if you can help yourself unlock more by you know eating correctly Working out living a healthy lifestyle And you know, you can go further when when I was in software sales I entered a culture where people were making 30 40 calls a day You know, I came in and I started making 90 you 100 calls a day working from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m And I just think that was the difference I was just willing to work longer harder and I think because I ate better and worked out I probably might have actually had more mental focus and clarity to keep going so I guess the lesson there is you know, make sure you're working out eating correctly and that will And also help you be tenacious I think solving problems is really important. Chad and I both by nature We look at something and we say you know, how can this be done better? I think that that can certainly apply to anyone's life You know, whether it's with your family or your job or anything if you think about it in terms of how can it be better That's gonna Help you out and then lastly would just be You know think of your business your life in your relationships as these Organisms that need to evolve to grow stronger for survival So, you know, we've never really thought of ourselves as just uh A kettlebell company. We've thought of ourselves as what do we need to do to keep growing stronger and survive? And so that's why we created content or that's why we've sought out how can we release new lines of kettlebells or how can this kettlebell be better than it was on the previous batch And so I think if you think about in terms of just how can you keep evolving that Spiritually something that's worked out for us as well too. I think there's also an element of what I'm what I'm picking up on is There's an element of like relentless positivity or optimism as well because like you for example with the Company you were talking about the guy didn't have the optimism to think that even though the the metrics on the Profitability weren't there yet that there was enough there that they could solve for it and get it To where to where it needs to be but you you seem to believe that it that it could get there And that you and Chad both seem to think that no matter how big a problem is it's it's solvable You know, so there's a there's an element there's an element of of relentless optimism or relentless positivity there as well Yeah, that's certainly true and You know just so anyone who might be listening does it doesn't mean that you have to be smiling and happy and shiny every day That's what optimism is, you know, it's just that if you If you are outlining a process and you're following the process and you're sticking at it It should work out and I thought about that a lot actually because in a way that's that almost sounds religious right like there's like Like a faith that it's gonna work out when it just might not like it's very possible that Everything we've worked for you know or that anyone works for might not work out and in the end There's no concrete evidence that it will and so it is this weird thing where it's almost like a a faith And yeah, and then optimism that it that it will happen if you keep it up It's the the stockdale paradox. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that but um I would venture you probably are with the The belief that no matter how difficult the situation is you you must confront the reality of your situation without ever losing faith that you will conquer it Yeah Yeah, and it's like and I think that's that's part of human nature in in general. I think that's what makes You know the kind of David good birth glide situation where once once like you know I use the term the lights come on once that the lights come on boom. It's it's time to compete. There is no I may lose I may win it's just a competition And so I think you know J and I and our other partner we really share that I think from our probably backgrounds and sports um We're you know, we we like to compete there's There wouldn't be anything for us to do if we weren't waking up and competing every morning You know, so it's something that I think it's part of our nature as well Just absolutely natural Absolutely. I think that I think that's definitely part of the makeup of an entrepreneur is that competitive that competitive spirit I think that definitely has to be there for sure So what what do you guys do to to take care of yourself? I mean, Jay you do meant you mentioned, you know, living that balance lifestyle So what are you guys doing from a nutrition and training standpoint? You know while still picking which 14 hours of the day you're going to work How do you how do you guys how do you guys find find time for yourselves and balance in your life or you know some some semblance of balance I just think it's one of those things you have to do Right and it's if it's important you you're you're going to find a way to do it You know when we first started the business, you know, we weren't taking salaries from the business You know, I was getting up at four in the morning to drive for a lift and drive people to the airport Then I you know, I'd get to work at 8 a.m And then try to squeeze in a workout So it's the same thing now. It's you just have to make time. So like everyone else, you know I'm working at home. I do I do a lot of the Kind of our workouts from living fit quite honestly So the the plans at Marcus Martinez has created I follow those you know like a lot of people right after college I got in the habit of just eating stuff from the gas station a lot of monster drinks and Wasn't looking or feeling the way that I wanted to and so something just clicked, you know, and I started making a change myself to just try to eat Lots of healthy meats and vegetables and I've been fortunate many will stick with it for the last 10 years How about you Chad? Yeah, I think I mean I look at everybody's kind of fitness or health and one that's kind of as a journey So you know for me this this journey is It didn't end with football You know, I got kettlebells and being interested in kettlebells in general. It was just another part of that journey I'm not the type of person that really likes working out at the gym that often just because it's too much distractions going on and It's not what I'm used to from growing up and the competitive more work nature workout, I guess It's more casual than I'd like to work out in So I work out a lot of home with kettlebells body weight Shadow boxing. Yeah, make pull-ups push-ups things like that Obviously, it helps that we have trainers on staff that kind of keep that bar high for so, you know Everyone we're around in general is pretty in shape and in healthy and trying to learn more about better ways and techniques than how to be healthy. So we're kind of Living that lifestyle through work and in person 24-step. Yeah, you're kind of obligated to to to live the brand, right? I mean if you're gonna If you're gonna lead from the front you have to you have to walk the walk A little bit it I was I was laughing when you when you mentioned the competitive the competitive piece because that was very much the the struggle for me post post Graduation, you know, I didn't know what to do with myself when I couldn't play football or rugby anymore And it wasn't it it wasn't until I found You know kettlebell sport where I was like ah I've got something I can compete at again And that was the that was really the catalyst for me to get back in shape And to really and to stay in shape for over a decade now is is having something that I knew okay I've got three months to get myself ready for the next competition or I've got six months to get myself ready for the next competition And I've got like objective things that I'm chasing. I've got things I'm working on areas of weakness that I need to improve on You know, um, that was a huge that was a huge thing for me. So you couldn't see me But I was I was not it nodding along like yeah that competitive piece I totally understand that I struggled with that as well with in a commercial gym like I can't I just can't get with the people that are like I'm gonna come there and just hit the treadmill for 30 minutes and read a book Yeah When I look over and I see them doing that I give frustrating to distract my workout and so I'm just like you know You know, what are you doing here? Yeah exactly and and that's the other that's the other part of it I guess You know, I think another thing that we share as entrepreneurs is the importance of education and knowledge when we got into the kettlebell Industry in general. We were extreme knowledge seekers So the only thing we did was go and try to find every single expert that was in this industry and pick their brains and really thoroughly try to develop a Understanding of what makes a good kettlebell why you know, why has it been around so long? How can we Where are we now and how can we make it better? You know, it's a constant evolution of the constant growth like like Jay was saying And so we've always valued the education of training smart and training with the most proficient or ergonomically correct tool that you can for for whatever exercise you're trying to you're trying to do And so I think a lot of that has shown up in our company just because Through the certifications or through you know, our advanced courses And I'm through through the different workouts that we're doing everything is super technical and trying to really get back to The most efficient way for you to work out of the gym So if you're gonna go spend 30 minutes at the gym don't waste it on the treadmill reading There's a much more efficient way for for you to get that 30 minutes in And actually see some results at the end of the day But how do I know what the Kardashians are doing if I'm swinging a kettlebell? Exactly Well, I will say one thing that's helped me a quite a bit and I you know I think that was why it kind of sport in CrossFit or so powerful is because it is that competitive element and Even on like I was falling CrossFit workouts 10 years ago, you know, up and on That just helped a lot that competitive element and so you guys are completely right about How important that can be you know I always hated treadmills But I've gotten in this place now where I like taking walks and I listened to language lessons Well, I do that and in a way that's become a competitive outlet where I'm envisioning I'm gonna become the most proficient speaker in this language possible, right? And almost try to gameify that it's it's a weird And testament to the competitive nature and how much that helps I like that and I think when it fits within a when it fits within a conceptual framework like You can you can make yourself do anything even the things that you don't like doing kind of like Chad was talking about like As a football player nobody liked running gasses or nobody liked two of days But you understood that the reward on the other side of it was that you were going to be ready to dominate the person across from you I've kind of come to that same that same Understanding when it comes to the low slow low slow cardio getting my steps in Being on the bike for 30 minutes or an hour like stuff that I don't generally like but I know That I can't just do kettlebell sport if I want to be good at kettlebell sport I also need to build my aerobic base if I'm going to address the the weakness You know to have you got to have the engine to be able to go and a full set so when I look at it from that perspective Okay, this hour is still an investment in my in my competitive goals, right? It's still even though even though that that one hour might be Very very low intensity for me and I'm tend to do the same things that you're talking about I'm not doing language, but I listen to podcasts or you know to entrepreneurial podcasts or mindset podcasts or Do my meditation on my walks when I go for a walk outside, you know The same same type of thing like reframing it in a way that it it becomes part of my competitive nature. Yeah, exactly Yeah, and I think the kettlebell does a good job in general Also of kind of overall functional fitness or what people are calling functional fitness nowadays as well So you know, I think no matter what sport you play like you say you can improve your Performance in that sport by working other types of exercises and other types of Of general fitness techniques and so you know, we try to do that for kettlebells With everything we do so, you know, we work with whether it's basketball players football players You know It could be even you know, we work with different ballet and and people who are more kind of the long Flowey type of motions as well when it comes to these these types of tools. So In our minds, we want to provide a way for anyone who's on that journey of wellness whatever that looks like for you We want to provide you with with education and with the actual equipment to do so Yeah, I'm wish I had discovered kettlebells, you know 10 years earlier than I had You know, obviously they weren't much of a thing You know back when I was in high school, but I ended up having shoulder surgery in college because of you know playing offensive line and what have you But you know had my left shoulder reconstructed and I look back and I wonder would that have happened if I had been doing Turkish Getups with a 24 kilo kettlebell in in high school, right had I had I been able to do you know double long cycle You know in a proper range of motion with good technique like the the translation of from that to You know offensive line play with hand placement and the dynamics of the movement like it's so it's so similar I just like gosh, I wish I had had this tool You know 10 years earlier than I ended up discovering it Yeah, I think even when when I think when in our generation when you were going from high school to college I think the biggest difference for my training or my experience was The Olympic lifts or the amount of Olympic Olympics you did and I think it's very similar So the Olympic lifts built that level of explosiveness I think that the kettlebell in itself would just help a lot with those stabilizations when you're trying to move that much weight around So yeah, I definitely agree that any any sport whether that's you know one of the things we work with quite a bit is Combat sports. So, you know fighting wrestling Jiu Jitsu MMA those types of things All of those things can be drastically improved by just Implementing some type of kettlebell kettlebell workout into your into your normal routines You don't have to shift to strictly kettlebells But those exercises will stabilize a lot of the movements that translate well to more of those other other sports Yeah, absolutely. I 100% agree I actually have I actually have a kind of a hybrid program that is four football players utilizing kettlebell sport and kettlebell movements as adjunct to the Olympic and powerlifting stuff as well because you know It's hard to simulate a 500 pound back squat with anything other than a 500 pound back squat There's a there's a raw strength component of that that that is difficult to simulate in any other fashion So there's definitely value to other implements as well, but um The the holistic approach should I think is is huge all right So I want to be respectful your guys this time I really appreciate you you carving out an hour to to talk with me So I got I have one more question for you and it's uh, I think it falls in line with with what being an entrepreneur kind of is all about and things We've touched on and that's that's what's next for you guys what's what's next for kettlebell kings? They're living fit like what's next on the on the road map? What are you guys what are you guys working at now? What's the next goal? Quite a quite a few things coming up. So you know in in terms of kettlebell kings You know, we are always expanding trying to create the next greatest kettlebell that exists So we have a couple prototypes on the table um, you know, whether that's the American bill We have a couple coding prototypes on it on our discussion board. We are going to be expanding into Europe and we're already kind of in Australia right now But we're going to be even doing a larger expansion there. So just kind of moving more Product in general and then on the on the living fit side I think that's where you'll see a lot more kind of the The expansion or kind of more exposure in terms of We're bringing on More personalities. So we just finish up around of hiring for New new personalities new trainers to bring on for that brand We have some finalists that we should be announcing hopefully in the next 30 days or so And just different digital products and things like that They would go with you after that. Yeah, it's pretty accurate Everything Chad said you know, we're we are exploring this American made option very heavily Hope to have some positive things there You know, if you've seen our our CERECO line of kettlebells They're the ones that can be really neatly colored You know, we created those because CERECO is the best possible coding you can put on a bill of absolutely Most durable. So we continue to experiment and test different types of paint We did actually just update the paint on our powder coat kettlebells. We have a whole new process on that That involves a lot more thorough Cleaning of the kettlebell for better adherence of the paint Baking it longer in the oven painting the black paint on before the Bands all the time what most companies do is they'll spray paint just yellow Let's say it's a 16 kg powder coat Spray paint a yellow and then just put tape over it and then put black over it and create uncomfortable ridges So we're taking the time to do it opposite. So exploring a lot there And then letting fit is where we just see a lot of um the overall growth So we we are coming out with new products, you know, we are making a push to have more quote-unquote mainstream fitness products through that brand You know, we will have dumbbells, slam balls exercise balls All that will go in with the workouts and digital content that we're putting out with them And we are going to be releasing a new personality to build, you know, if you think of Aaron and Marcus's existing silos of kettlebell and powder up learning We are going to add a new silo of a whole new full-time learning and certification We are going to be doing some live streaming workouts through that as well whenever someone buys a workout plan from us They can Have the option to get it live streamed and we are hoping to bring on even more exciting Personalities just to conduct you know regular interviews on different topics and and give people stuff that they can watch and listen to when they're Not working out awesome Well, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast and How can people follow you and how can they how can they sign up for your products? Where can they work in the order? Where can they sign up for for the new programs? kettlebell kings.com is where we have all the kettlebells and if you search kettlebell kings on any form of social media Should be able to find this there as well All of the workouts and certifications are at www.living.fit So there is no.com on that. It's just a .fit extension living.fit And on social Instagram that's kbk like kettlebell kings kbk living.fit on facebook it should just be living up fit as well Awesome, and you can use code tckb to get 10% off on kettlebell kings.com So if you if you get in on the next round of pre-orders Make sure you make sure you've got their their email White listed in your inbox So when they send you the alert that what you have is back in stock You can go ahead and and click that purchase right away So that you get your you get your kettlebell that you want or kettlebells if you're fortunate enough to get to get multiple so Really excited for having you guys on. Thank you so much for taking the time really really appreciate it Thank you Jordan Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright If you have a question, please email me at twinsities kettlebell club at gmail.com Follow us on instagram and facebook at twinsities kettlebell club on twitter at tckb club Online at twinsities kettlebell club.com And please help us grow our reach and give us a review on apple podcast spotify stitcher or wherever you Get your podcasts until next time