Nikolai Puchlov | Head Coach Seattle Kettlebell Club & Co-founder Pro Kettlebell

Welcome to the platform podcast. I'm your host Jordan Kunde-Wright, founder and head coach of the Twin Cities Kettlebell Club And I'm on a mission to help others build sustainable healthy habits I know how hard that can be because I've struggled and succeeded to varying degrees throughout my life But I've lost over a hundred pounds and kept it off for over a decade now the key for me was discovering my passion for lifting weights in Kettlebell Sport on this podcast we'll talk to athletes coaches experts and everyday people about Kettlebell's fitness programming nutrition mindset making an impact and generally striving to grow and leave a legacy of positive change Please join me. All right welcome in to the platform podcast. My guest today is Nikolai Pooch-Love the head coach and founder of the Seattle Kettlebell Club and also the founder of Pro Kettlebell Nikolai, thank you so much for coming on and really appreciate you being on Thanks for having me So tell me a little bit about yourself. You are the founder of the Seattle Kettlebell Club obviously as I just mentioned but where did you grow up? I grew up in Seattle, Ballard Seattle, you know, even though I have a very Russian name, I'm first generation born here in the United States And in half Russian my dad's side is Russian and my mom's side is American so I always speak a tiny bit of Russian even though my name would Yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna lie the first time I the first time I saw your your name come up and the first time I watched one of your videos I was totally expecting like, you know, an experience where you hear somebody who's speaking with a very thick Russian accent explaining how to lift Kettlebells When you got on the mic, I was like, oh, this guy's very American Right, you know, the first time I met my wife's aunt who lives in very lived in very rural Oregon She was speaking very slowly to me and like enunciating every single word and I said, you know, I speak English perfectly I was actually born in the United States and it was kind of funny So yeah, I am more American than I am Russian for sure Nice, so I know your I know your coaching background starts a little bit in the powerlifting world but what about your own personal athletic background? How did you start, you know, athletically growing up where you were your athletic kid growing up or did you come into it later? How does your athletic background tie in? Yeah, I mean I started playing sports as a young kid in elementary school even before that Soccer mostly, I played all the sports but I was probably best at soccer and I enjoyed that the most Basketball and baseball I played with limited success, hit my growth spur kind of late So being competitive in those sports was tough But you know, I enjoyed soccer because it allowed me But the chance to run around, I could be aggressive, but you know, I kind of like that And so that's what I did until I hit high school and then in high school because I was so small I started just lifting weights because I wanted to get bigger arms in the chest because I like girls, you know And I think I think bigger arms and chest and it helps either way Yeah, yeah, but I didn't know what I was doing really It was just by pure luck that I had a group of personal trainers come into my high school gym class And they were from this foundation called the Willie Austin foundation, Willie Austin passed away a couple of years back But what this foundation did was they took high school kids like me, I believe I was a sophomore in high school And I was one of the only kids who was still in the weightlifting class, most of the kids would take off and go smoke And I was in there just doing my own thing and they're like, hey, you want to come to this club And you'll get personal training, it's like two days a week And this club was called the Gateway Athletic Club at the time And it was this premier club on the 14th floor of a skyscraper in downtown Seattle And we had access to it at night, we got like an hour of training from these personal trainers and stuff It was the most beautiful place I'd ever been to in my life and I never really had been downtown Seattle at that point And like they had a bathroom attendant that would give you bathroom mitts and stuff like that You know what I mean? It was crazy No, that was my first experience with a real gym other than the high school gym And that's fantastic And so you got professional, like you got professional, you know, the form correction I did Progressive programming at a very young age, that's awesome I did, it was really kind of a miracle I guess And then one of the guys who worked for that who was he was basically an equity owner in that club His name is Andrew Bull Stewart I wound up reconnecting with him when I turned 30 Well, no, I reconnected with him when I was 23 And he became my personal trainer later and that was just totally by random coincidence And he just happened to be one of those trainers and an equity owner at the Gateway Athletic Club back in the day And he really remembered me and he started personal training when I turned 23 And if I saw your blog post right, he kind of like Mr. Miyagi you into powerlifting Without you really knowing that you were prepping for powerlifting, right? He did, he did, he totally, he bamboozled me He did, which is great, I'm thankful for it And I've sort of learned that same trick, that's how I've gotten people to do kettlebells And you know, we start training just for fitness and for fun And sooner or later they wind up getting a taste and they try the sport out Yeah, that's fantastic So the Seattle kettlebell club is right in the heart of Seattle I mean can you give me a, I haven't yet gotten the chance to go to Seattle It's on my list, I was planning on making a trip out there because the company that I work for in my day job actually has an office up there And I was planning on making a trip up there and making a pilgrimage to your gym and meeting you in person And taking some classes and all that and then COVID happened So I didn't get a chance to do that unfortunately But you guys tell me a little bit about how you guys started Because you're one of the biggest clubs, I think you're the biggest competition club in the US now You're also a gym that's specific to kettlebell sport basically, which is very unique in the US at this time So tell me a little bit about how that started, how did that come about? Well, it started at Bull Stewart's gym You know, I was doing personal training there, came a personal trainer when I in my early 30s Basically I turned 30 and I was, I had been powerlifting but I was kind of like I was in the restaurant industry, I still smoked, I drank, and you know, excellent for your output Yeah, totally, totally awesome And I was in bad shape, you know, my blood pressure was pretty high, resting heart rate was pretty high I'd get really sweaty, you know, just like walking up steps and whatnot And, you know, I enjoyed working out, but I just had to point my life where I needed a career change The restaurant industry, it was something that I wanted to do, I wanted to be a bartender, you know I did that, I did it for quite a few years, I totally burned out on it And so, you know, I quit drinking and after, you know, a couple months of not drinking I really realized that the rest, I hated my restaurant job I like could not get into it anymore, because there's really nothing for me to look forward to at the end of my shift Everybody was going to have shift drinks or whatever You had your shift drink at the end of the shift, yeah And I just wasn't doing that anymore, and I had all this extra time on my hands and, you know, money So I wound up, you know, getting more personal training and spending a ton of time in the gym And, you know, when you were at the personal trainer, you wound up just talking a lot too And both was like, you know, he'd be great at this, and he convinced me to come work at the gym And, you know, I got, so I talked it over with my wife, and she's like, okay, well you should do this But don't quit your other job, you know, because you're, I've done the math on it You need to, you know, have an excellent amount of clients just to, you know, break even And head your bets a little bit, don't go all in here What's that? Yeah, head your bets a little bit, don't go all in right away For sure, and I was like, oh yeah, okay, but that lasted about a day or two Because I just, I wanted to quit my restaurant job and going all in And it was an independent contractor job, so I made no hourly wage I made zero dollars when I started, I just, but I would just be there all the time And I just made sure to stay as busy as possible And I think it was within a couple months, I had probably 30 clients Like, he, both did a really good job of showing me how to take good care of clients He had a method about how he did things, and I totally adopted that method And I had always had found a customer service background, and that was helpful too I worked in Nordstrom for five years When as a bartender, you know how to listen to people's stories without judgment And just, you know, just be quiet and let them vent and tell you what they need to tell you And be like, all right Yeah, and so it was kind of a natural fit, it was really a natural fit Anyway, so, you know, through powerlifting, I had developed some injuries and whatnot I really messed up my back pretty bad And, you know, I had some, I could, I had some toe drop Like I was dragging my foot for a while, and another coach there, he was a friend of Bulls And they could get sure he, he was talking to me and say, you know, he used to try kettlebells And this will totally, you know, help you out, and he recommended a guy Tom Porgon He lives north of Seattle, and I gave me a phone number, and I contacted the, you know, Tom Porgon? No, I was, I was just gonna say that, that's not a name I've heard in the kettlebell community And he's been around forever in the kettlebell world Anyways, he's super knowledgeable, he's like one of the most knowledgeable guys with kettlebells, you'll ever meet Anyways, I wound up meeting with him, he kind of took me under his wing And showed me a lot, he planted the seeds as far as like what the sport was But he didn't really let me know that he was doing that You know, he was, he was showing me hard style But he was planning the seeds of the sport aspect of it, unbeknownst to me And for the uninitiated listener, let's just articulate what is the difference between hard style and sport style I can give you my version, and there will be some people that will maybe disagree with me or whatever But I think hard style is kind of a marketing thing You teach people how to use kettlebells, right? There's so much nuance, there's so many different variables depending on the person's body type It's really a martial art And if you're trying to market kettlebells to a mass audience, teaching them sport is just not gonna work And hard style really kind of takes some, it takes some rules and it just makes things very simple and easy to digest And it takes some powerlifting principles and maybe some martial arts principles kind of puts them together And just creates a very structured mass, teaching kettlebells that the new can pick up fairly quickly And feel like they're getting good And it sounds cool, hard style, right? Tom Redd, you must list as far as you can in every way They totally played off of, you know, popples, you know, popularity with his deep voice It was a brilliant avatar to create for him, and obviously it worked well Right, you tell some guys that, you know, so be it Spent Nans, do it, all that stuff, they just keep that stuff up Anyways, so that's kind of where I, that's my version of it and I'll probably get some shit over it I'll give it the more politically correct spin on it, which is that I think hard style is designed with a different intention behind it It is to apply maximal force to the implement with every repetition and every movement that you do Your design is to create maximal tension, maximal force production, so it works well for quick development of strength for a deconditioned athletes And it can help with power and rate of force production adaptation It's simpler to teach because the movements have less moving parts And in that application, if your goal is to get strong quickly and to work on your rate of force production for anaerobic sports like martial arts or American football or rugby, things like that It can work very well in that application, it is not as complicated to teach as kettlebell sport where the movements are more fluid, the movements are more athletic And the movements are designed for strength endurance, that's my politically correct way without trying to alienate anybody, it depends on the goal of your application It can be a very time efficient way to train for people that have no interest in competing in kettlebell sport It can be an effective modality and so long as you move correctly and in a safe manner, there is nothing wrong with hard style in that with those guardrails applied to it I can agree with that You don't have to, you can absolutely challenge me if you want I can agree with it I will say that the term kettlebell sport style is incorrect too though And the reason being is because not everybody who uses that style is a kettlebell sport athlete or wants to be a kettlebell sport athlete It's like saying someone who rides a bike is a competitive cyclist The techniques work very well for a large percentage of the population And what I enjoy about it is the more I do it the more I really like about it is that the movements are so naturally athletic And it really taps into people's natural ability and allows you to harness your own unique athleticism That people who maybe didn't have the confidence in themselves being athletic have actually really find that they actually are athletic And start to do some really amazing things and with very little wear and tear on the body As opposed to other types of weightlifting that can really maybe not always, once you get to a certain point, it's not so beneficial Yeah, I mean, I love powerlifting and I love Olympic lifting. That was my background before I discovered kettlebells As applied for my goal of being the best football player I could be, but I was at one point a fairly decent powerlifter Although in the heavyweight class, a 1,500 total is not terribly impressive but when you're 18, 19 years old, it's not bad But also the stakes are so high when you have 600 pounds directly loaded on your spine If there are any movement compensations going on that you're not fully aware of The accumulation of force and reps, I mean it only takes one bad rep with 600 pounds loaded on your spine To create a pretty severe injury very quickly. So that maximum loading can be very, very high stakes And if you're not really, really disciplined and really, really aware of what you're doing, which I don't know very many 19-year-olds that are receiving a level of coaching where they're fully aware and competent in all of those movement patterns It can be a very damaging way to train your body if you're not very, very careful and very, very well-coached Right, yeah, it's almost not even at least in the competitive aspect of it, it's not if, it's this win Yeah, absolutely. I don't know a high level powerlifter that hasn't torn a pack or done some type of major, either muscle or joint injury at some point Because the stakes are just so high, there's just so much force applied in different vectors Like you said, it's a matter of win, it's not a matter of if, it really is a matter of win You come from that background obviously as your first base of understanding How do you program differently than a lot of traditional kettlebell sport coaches? How did you take what you know from powerlifting and apply it to kettlebell sport? But then also how was your training philosophy evolved over time? Because you've clearly evolved into a different way of trying to program for kettlebell sport And I'm really fascinated to hear more about how your philosophy developed Well, okay So initially, I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of different kettlebell coaches And you know, I've learned a little something from everybody You know, I learned through bowls programming which he traditionally started a powerlifting cycle with higher reps And a lot of assistance work in the beginning And as that program progressed, well, the reps would drop, the assistance work would drop So you finally got close to that one rep max And that usually took about eight weeks, sometimes slow weeks And I really liked that linear progression I've sort of figured out what the demographic that I work with, you know, 12 week cycles are a long time for people to stick with Especially when they've passed 30 years old And things start to break down around that time So shortening cycles has been helpful for me Michele Marschack was my first sport coach And his method was very linear basically using a steady amount of weight range And then just slowly increasing time to it over a period of weeks Which was similar to that So he was adding volume by keeping the weight the same but adding time under tension Yes, but there would be some heavy and medium and light sets, you know But yes, he was adding time to it And it was almost like, it was very similar to bowls programming It just the opposite, you're just adding time As opposed to the weight Yeah, exactly And then, you know, I had the opportunity to work with Rickinsky for a while And he definitely, he had a much higher volume approach Where people would just immediately start doing, you know, like 10 minute or longer sets With much lighter weight, though, and coming back And so really it's just become a hybrid of things that I've learned and different assistant Minuvers that I've found that, you know, some I've learned from other people Other have kind of created myself and I really, you know, feel like they're super beneficial I think the way I do things differently is probably, and I've started noticing other people are starting to do it I use percentages a lot in our programming So do you mean percentage of weight or percentage of time or how do you apply percentages? Percentages of weight Yeah, percentages of weight and volume per minute And what makes that work well See, initially it was, I'd say, all right, do plus or minus two or four kilos or whatever Yeah, over your competition rate, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly, so you'd start with your competition rate and I'd say plus or minus two or four kilos or whatever But when you're dealing with someone who is using like, say, eight kilos versus someone who's using 32 kilos Well, those percentage increases are much different, you understand what I mean? Yeah, yeah Two kilos is a much higher percentage of... Eight kilos typically represents between a 10 to 20% load increase depending on... And that's the thing that people don't seem to grasp when you're like... When you go from a 12 to a 14 kilo kettlebell, they're like, oh, it's only two kilos, it's like, yeah, that's 20%. That's a big increase, I don't think you realize how big the increase that is in your total volume. Well, when our team was just starting and I had a couple people on it, you know, I could tell people individually, no, that's not going to work for you. You use this weight, you use this weight, blah, blah, blah. But at a certain point, you know, our team grew to 40 and then at our peak, we had over 100 people on our team. And so I'm writing a program for all these people and doing percentages of working weight made the most sense. You know, I could give the same program to, you know, 100 people. And they could, you know, using those percentages, they can all use the same program. Yeah, that's fantastic. That's similar to what I'm trying to do post-COVID. You know, before prior to COVID, I was designing any athlete on my team got a customized program with specific weights, times, sets, you know, et cetera, and I'm progressing them depending on where they were at in their journey. But now because everybody's remote and nobody has any, has any ability to connect in person, I asked my team, you know, what would you prefer to you still want me to give you customized programming based on the weight that you have at home or do you just want to, you just want everybody to be doing the same time and sets. And then we just, I just vary your pacing and the weight of the kettlebell that you use to adjust the intensity for you, but everybody's doing the same sets. And that was what unequivocally everybody voted for was like, hey, yeah, let's all do, you know, 10, 1 minute intervals or 5, 2 minute intervals or whatever we're doing on that particular day. And then everybody's working out together, but you're still customizing the volume and the intensity of the workout based on what weights they have available and what their current capacity is. And that's, you know, a similar approach. I don't have as much flexibility because nobody can get kettlebells right now. Most people only have one or two weights available to them, but it's the similar type of a person I'm trying to do as well as I'm trying to, how do I generalize this to as many people as possible so that if I have 12 people in the session, we can all work out together. If I have four people in the session, great, we can store all workout together, but it's that that is that is challenging and that you got it up to, you know, that you've gotten it up to 100 people is fantastic. And that's, that's fucking awesome and congrats to you. That's great. Thanks. Well, it wasn't easy. You know, at Columbia City Fitness, I started doing kettlebell classes. There would be a lot of mornings where basically I would be there five in the morning to start a kettlebell class and nobody would be there. And, and that was like a lot of mornings. And, and then, you know, slowly it'd be one person and then two people. Eventually, you know, I did strike out on my own and I'm like, you know, I'm going to be a true independent contractor. I left the gym. And, you know, I was teaching kettlebell classes in the park, you know, at different parks and whatnot for free and trying to get people to do it. But I had no gym to work out of. And it was, it's been a very slow process. It was, you know, that's a specific Northwest climate too. Yeah, you don't have a 12, you don't have a 12-month-year training window up there. So we did it anyways. We teach classes out in the rain. Well, Nora would do it. But, you know, my wife has been very instrumental as far as like, you know, the marketing aspect of everything. There's no way, you know, I kind of got the training knowledge, but my wife has been really instrumental as far as the. Yeah, being able to learn how to build websites and, and figure out the SEO aspect. We initially were called striker fit kettlebell club. But then, yeah, so I saw your throwback post to when, when striker fit was doing a free, a free class on a beach. Like, that was a, you posted a couple weeks ago and I was like, oh, that's, that's cool. It's great to, it's great to see how the, how the brand has evolved. Right. And so that, our SEO was terrible, you know, our search engine optimization. So, you know, we came up with the idea to call it Seattle kettlebell club. And like, within a day or two, we went from like page 30 to page one on Google. And that helped us a lot. And now that was totally part of the reason I decided to call this kettlebell cup the 20 cities kettlebell club as opposed to something else. Yeah. That was it. So thank you to your wife. Right. Yeah. So that was a good move on our part. You know, I guess I'm kind of circling back to how we started that Seattle kettlebell club. You know, the, the first place we started was at this place got rich, rich fitness was when we actually created the class based membership. And that was somebody else's gym, but I would pay him 800 bucks a month to do my personal training out of and teach classes. And we charged people, I think it was like $150 a month with that they got a membership to his gym. And then they got our kettlebell classes, which were like three days a week or something like that. And it became so popular and it hurt her to time that he actually kicked me out. Because before starting to think that his gym was Seattle kettlebell club, not rich fitness, and plus kettlebell literally chalk and all that stuff. And it was kind of a gym for like people in their 50s who just like to like go on the treadmill and do circuit training. And, you know, we're still friends and stuff like that. But, you know, he was like, Michael, you got a week, you got to find another place. Oh, wow, you give you a week. That's it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of a Christy tunity. But, you know, I've had three locations. I'm on my third location right now. Since then, the first was a was a photography studio that a guy named Keely let me rent out for about 1500 a month. And I had to share it with a couple that used it as a photography studio. And Keely also lived there. And he and his girlfriend lived there. And so he'd come walking out in his underwear in the middle of my class. And I don't know why people continue to come take classes from me because like there's a dude in his underwear in my class, like maybe it was part of the appeal. Was he a good looking guy? I guess, you know, but definitely his girlfriend was getting tired of us pretty quick. And then he basically was like, all right, Nikolai, I think we got a, we got to wrap this up. This is getting too big, too crazy here. You know, my girlfriend wants to go. And luckily, a small space, just a couple doors down from, from his space opened up. And that was our first actual location. It was only about 1100 square feet. And we brought a lot of money and built it out as best we could. And that was like our first like our own space. What was that? That was 2015. Okay, great. And when did the, when did the whole journey start with Seattle, Canada, but others its own entity. 2015, like early 2015, it was by end of 2015 that we, we had moved twice already. And we had to find another space. My wife might correct me on some of the day, some terrible dates, but I know it's me too. I, I feel you, I am terrible. But you know, we wound up getting a lot of noise complaints because this building was at the base of it's a mixed retail. Space at the bottom of a condominium. And all the, the jerks, you know, yeah, you're doing jerks, right? That's what I was going to say. You're doing jerks, right? If you're getting no complaints from the neighbor. Yeah, we got noise complaints. We got so many noise complaints that we, you know, after, we only lasted a couple of years there. Maybe a year and a half before we started looking for another location. And I still had a five year lease on that place. So I had to find a sub tenant. And then luckily we found our current location where we're at right now. And that's about 3600 square feet. And that's. You know, that's been our dream location so far. It's been the best by far being a standalone building. We built in the platforms into the floor with hardwood all around it. It is beautiful as possible. Yeah, it looks, it looks gorgeous. And when it's seen all, you know, I've seen the pictures online. And I'm just like, oh man, he's built these built the Shangri-La facility of kettlebell sports training. We're not through yet. We're not through yet. I've got some other, some other things in the work. Yeah, yeah. So I've seen you, you've updated, you've updated recently. You've installed some new stuff with. I saw you playing around on some, on some, on some rings and a pull-up bar and, and doing, doing a whole bunch of stuff. You mentioned earlier, price opportunities. And obviously, you know, COVID obviously hit Seattle first and hit it pretty frickin hard. So, I mean, first and foremost, how, how, how is everyone? How is your family? How is the membership? How, how is the community doing up there right now? You know, the, the Rona, it hit our membership super hard. You know, a lot of people lost jobs and. People are still scared to, to come to the gym right now. But, you know, we had built up our membership to a, to a pretty good amount prior to that. And, you know, we're lucky because we do have a really strong community and a lot of our members have stuck with us and continue to pay. Even though, you know, they weren't using the gym, they, we let them borrow kettlebells and, and then do the online classes that, that we started doing through the pro kettlebell. And that's kept a lot of them satisfied. But we probably lost over 50% or more of our membership. And the saving grace was that, you know, you know, I had quite a few, I had the large staff. I have about eight staff members and, you know, a few trainers. And we were paying out a lot in payroll every month. So, that was kind of built into our overhead. And so, when we lost that, you know, all the, the labor, you know, we're able to kind of stay afloat. You know, I mean, and we've been getting a little bit through the, through the online business, but that's, you know, that's still in its infancy. We're just happy to be open again. So, tell me about the pro kettlebell. You know, I mean, you guys obviously had to pivot the brand to pro kettlebell. Was that something that was already in the works or was that just totally a response to, to this situation where you're like, hey, we've, we've got to provide a solution to our members. And this is the only way that we can do that. Or, you know, just tell me a little bit about the pro kettlebell brand. Yeah. So, that's been in the works for a while. It just really expedited it. It really made it happen a lot quicker. It gave us the time to actually work on it. You know, I love Seattle kettlebell club. And I love that brand. But it is kind of, you know, specific to Seattle. I have always felt like the term, you know, whether we like it or not, Valerie Federico would say there's only kettlebells. You know, there's, there's only using kettlebells well. And then not, you know, one true way of kettlebells. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And they've, I've heard people try to call it Louis style, which sounds pretty like Wimbee to me. And I was like, you know, what, how, what is the style that we have? And honestly, it's, it's pro style kettlebell lifting. This is how professionals live kettlebells. And so that's where the name pro kettlebell came from. And I felt like it has, it has kind of universal appeal. I want to be able to, you know, reach a broader market and share the programming. And also help other gym owners do what we did, you know, and, and have a successful, you know, business that's, you know, based off kettlebells. And it's, it is hard. It's like out of all the fitness things to choose to do kettlebells, probably like the hardest thing to do. It's, it's almost, you know, it's crazy. It's crazy. You know, it takes a massacre to do kettlebell sport. So it makes sense that it takes a massacre to try and build a business on kettlebell sport. Exactly. And that's the truth. You hit it on the head. And, but we figured some things out along the way. And, you know, I feel like, you know, Zig Ziglar is. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Zig Ziglar says you help enough people get what they want. You automatically get what you want. Yeah. And that's our philosophy. And so we can help enough people learn how to do kettlebells and make it part of their lifestyle and be successful. And, and, and we'll be successful too. Yeah. But that's the whole forgettable thing. Your mission aligns with what my, what my mission and vision is, which, you know, my mission is, you know, to help people build sustainable healthy lifestyles. And my vision is to try and bring kettlebell sport to the mainstream in America. So I think we, I think we pretty clearly align in that, in that goal. You know, that's one of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you because you had so much success and kind of bridging that gap. And I really admire the way that you've been able to do that and build, build an accessible club, right. And that's the thing that I think you've really done really, really well without fanboying on you too much. But, you know, I think you've lowered the barrier of entry and really made it accessible to people, you know, like you said, people who didn't previously view themselves as athletes. To get them an avenue to try something new and then realize that they're more athletic than they ever gave themselves credit for and then give them an expression for that athleticism. You know, that's, that's fantastic. I think you've really done, you've really done an awesome job to this point. And I think you've got a lot, I think you've got a lot ahead of you as well. Thanks. And I definitely, I mean, I get the most out of it when people kind of surprise themselves and, you know, at the sport gets a lot of the credit or, you know, a lot of the media and the press. Actually, it's, it's a lot of people that are, they're just regular. Just people trying to get in shape and, you know, they come in a little bit dejected and maybe not feeling so, so great about themselves and those people that, you know, start walking around a little taller and, you know, picking their feet up and putting them down and just like feeling good about themselves. Those are the ones that are really. Keep you going. Yeah, I think you found, you found a really good way to kind of bridge the gap between, you know, what I would, you know, air quotes call fitness kettlebell versus sport kettlebell. Like I see a lot of the programming that you put out there where you've got people doing fundamental movements of kettlebell sport, but also incorporating just general GPP movements into that, that entire circuit that you guys do. I mean, typically do it in like six periods, it looks like, and you have, you have various components tied in throughout and, you know, half of those are kettlebell sport movements and the other half are just like GPP movements like, you know, the star, you know, the push up stars and, you know, different, different movements that just are really designed to incorporate the total body. And I've really done a cool job of kind of blending those two components together to make it accessible for people as an introductory level and a way to get them into just healthy movement, but with kettlebells is the foundation of it. Yeah, you know, if it works, it works and, you know, the reason why. The professionals do. What they do with kettlebells is because they it works right and anything that doesn't work. Is is not necessary and not really useful is the waste of time. If it has a high risk and low reward or, you know, if it just looks cool, but it doesn't do anything for you, then there's really no point doing it. You know, we do add some fun stuff for variety, but for the most part, it has to like, it has to work and, you know, we have to be able to teach it in a very short period of time to because no one has the patience to learn to spend 30 minutes learning how to do one move. And then by the time you learn how to do it, the class over. So yeah, that was definitely a mistake I made early on teaching kettlebells, especially kettlebell sport, you know, let's go back, let's go back to the rack position. And they're like, oh my god, I'm in this fucking rack position all day, you know, sorry, time, time drop. Yeah, we didn't really lift the bell overhead today, but we really got your rack position tight. Right. Yeah, people have a short, short attention span when it comes down to it, they just want to have fun and they want to lift and they want to sweat. Yeah, but so you guys are developing a new kettlebell, which is made in America, which I was really excited to see your post about that, you know, last week. Tell me a little bit about that process, when are those going to be available, you know, how did you guys, how did you guys decide to go down that avenue. I'm shooting for September as far as availability goes, I've always wanted to do that. I've been trying to do that since I got started doing kettlebells. You know, one of the first things I found with the kettlebells, first the cast iron ones was that they just were not comfortable for most people to be holding, you know, as a personal trainer, most of my clients were, you know, people in their 40s and 50s and 60s and primarily, you know, primarily smaller people. And I'd be showing them how to use kettlebells in a lot, you know, they're uncomfortable in the beginning and, and then, you know, as I've, you know, got better kettlebells, you know, the, my, my retention rate has gone up, you know, and what was one of the best things was getting lighter kettlebells. Like, I have so many fours and sixes in my gym, they probably get the most use out of all the kettlebells. Yeah, and is that your entry right? Yeah, and it gets people started right off the bat and they're not afraid of the kettlebells. And, you know, I ordered them from China, I got them straight from the factory, I ordered a couple times. And they're probably, you know, there's some of the most comfortable kettlebells out there, but they're still huge for most people. And they're still like, it's just a spear with, you know, a handle on there. And they've done a better job of making the handle sort of blend into the spear. But you still get high points that push that push into the forearm. And in create a large area of pressure or a small area of pressure, you know, the pounds per square inch on the arm. And I never felt quite right about ordering stuff from overseas anyways, because I just don't believe in the way that, you know, the workers get compensated or not. And so I've been looking for a way to get them made in the US. I've been turned down probably 50 times. And finally, I found a foundry that is willing to work with me and do it. And I decided if I'm going to do it in the US, I'm just going to, I'm going to do it the way I want to do it. I'm going to, I hired, we designed the kettlebell ourselves, my wife and I, we designed the kettlebell ourselves. Like basically our, our dream list, the vast specs of it. I've been working with the solid works designer to get the geometry right. We're going to, we're supposed to get our 3D model. We're supposed to get it today. Hopefully we'll get it by the end of the weekend. But the beauty of this kettlebell is, you know, there's so many things I've learned from doing kettlebells. You know, a higher center, a higher center of mass is going to be a little bit beneficial as far as making the kettlebell feel lighter. Some of the earlier kettlebells haven't really long horns, which made them whip around and kind of smack your heart if you didn't do it quite right. If the windows too large, you know, your hand can shoot through too far, if you have smaller hands, but it's too small, then it can, you know, it can impede that hand insertion. There's just a number of things, just the overall size, I mean, originally they were designed for, you know, probably military age men, right? And that's not the majority of people using them in the United States. Yeah, that there's, that there is not a women's size of kettlebells is ass and nine to me, because even in Olympic lifting, I mean Olympic lifting has been around for a long time. And it is not a quick to change institution by any stretch, but in Olympic lifting, you have a men's length of the barbell and a women's length of the barbell. And the whip of the barbell is up to your own personal preference. So long as it's been a certain spec range, that is determined by the governing body, you know, you can use whatever barbell you like best, so long as it meets the specs. And the fact that there is not that same level of both flexibility and rigor to kettlebells is I think one of the things that's probably limiting its adoption and probably limiting our ability to get it into the Olympics anytime soon. I am really excited to see the prototypes and to see what you guys are doing, because I am very much an implement nerd. I have tried almost every brand that's available in the U.S. and some of that are not available in the U.S., but, you know, you can get a Wolverson kettlebell, you know, sent over here or an alaco kettlebell sent over here. You know, I've tried almost every single one, and I have my preference just based on my own skeleton type, but I'm always open to trying new ones, because I think, like you said, it's really super important that you find the ones that work for your anatomy because it matters so much, especially when you're talking about, you know, in a given training cycle, you're doing hundreds and thousands of reps, you know. So getting the right, getting the right dimensions, getting the right, the right center of mass, like, you know, all of those things can lead to very important improvements in your output. Yeah, I, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't give, you know, Valerie Federico some credit, that guy is way ahead of his time as far as his vision, you know, he came out with kettlebells with those flat spots on them. Yeah, a long time ago, and, you know, through no fault of his own, he just, he wasn't able to get the designers of the kettlebell to do exactly what you needed it to do. And after working with the, you know, the, the solid works designer, I, I understand why he had trouble, especially if you're working with someone overseas, those CAD programs are very simplistic and they, they can't do complex geometry. There's a lot of math that goes into it and the software starts to crash the computer, when you start getting, making too many changes too quick and those, those programs, they can really only do like circles, cylinders, you know, spheres and squares and stuff like that. And that's why his kettlebells looked the way they looked, and they were 100% comfortable. But his idea was right. Yeah, I loved the concept, and then I got a couple of them and I was like, this doesn't fit my, because I, you know, I'm the opposite of you. Like, you know, I'm six, six foot and 280, you know, so I'm a former offensive lineman with a pretty thick frame and just the width of the cutouts just was too narrow for me. It just didn't, it didn't work. It's, it actually increased the, you know, the localized point of pressure like you were talking about, you know, the center of gravity was just off. And I think that part of the reason I like the, the kettlebell kings ones is, is their window fits my frame really well. And I like their 35 millimeter ones, but they're 33 millimeter ones I don't like because the cone is too big and it sits on the wrong area of my arm. So it's, it's very, it's very, very specific, you know, not that I can't lift any kettlebell that you put in front of me, but it's just, you know, it becomes a preference thing at a certain point. But I'm, it's getting the geometry right for the, for the widest range of body types is super challenging. And I can, you know, I think you're absolutely right. He had the right idea with trying to make the kettlebell more comfortable for a broader set of people, but that execution is, is a challenging thing to pull off. That is, that is the execution is going to be the hardest part. Another thing he had right was his, his rep counter. Oh, the, the fixometer. Yeah, you know, it's just the execution was garbage. I think it's just ahead of his time. And it'll come out again, you know, someday, I've got ideas about how to make that better. But first I got to knock out this kettlebell. I have, I have a, a separate idea that actually doesn't involve an attachment to the kettlebell, but I work for an AI company. I work for an AI company by day. And you can actually train computer vision, computer vision cameras with onboard inferencing. You can train them to be able to count reps and, and be able to judge what is a counted rep and what is not a counted rep based on whether or not somebody actually fixated whether or not they stopped. But it requires a large set of training data, which you have to, you know, them label and say this was a good rep. This was not a good rep and why you don't have to give it why, but you have to, you have to, you have to train the model. That's my, that's my thought is at some point we can get to a point where we can actually train, we could, we could have computer judges that keep the rep count for you and tell you yes or no whether a rep counted. And it will, I can say almost unequivocally with enough training data, it would, it would be more accurate and more objective than a human judge. You're absolutely right. Yeah, my thought was to modify a Microsoft connect with the infrared and, you know, because then you have the depth perception and all that stuff. That's the guy do it. He made a basketball hoop that could turn, that could change its angle based off of which way you threw the basketball at the backward. And he sunk the basket every single time, right. Of course, you know, this guy had to do a ton of math to get it to work and all that stuff, but that could be done. They just got to figure out a way to not they, we figure out a way to make it, you know, marketable so that it's worth the investment to do it. Yeah, that's that's the thing I was I just happened to have access to an Nvidia jets and a smart camera because of my day job. That's not the not not every not everybody has access to that nor do I expect that many people are going to be willing to invest in that technology. Yeah, we're not we're not far off though. Yeah, probably not in your cell phone in the not too distant future. Yeah, no, yeah, I can I completely agree with you. So with the new kettlebells, how when will people be able to pre-order you said September is the target ship date when we'll be able to when will people be able to give you pre-orders and how do they do that? I want to make sure that my well, okay. Once I get my 3d model done, I need to make sure that the 3d model is great. If it's not great and it needs some tweaks, then I'm going to have to send it back and make the tweaks because I got to get it right the first time. But, you know, like you said, you're, you know, you're 280 and I want to make sure it fits well on a big a big guy as well as a smaller person, you know, it's got to be that happy, that happy place where it fits great on most people. And, you know, it really does what we want it to do. But I feel like we're pretty close to that. And as soon as I know it, the shape is right. Then I'll open it up to pre-orders and I'm just going to say, you know, my mailing list is going to get it first. So if people are on my mailing list, then that's, that's who's going to get it. And how do they sign up for that? It's going the website and we got a pop-up that says, hey, what did you get on our mailing list? Is that the pro kettlebell mailing list or the Seattle kettlebell club mailing list? Are they the one in the same? It doesn't matter. Okay. No, they all go to the same, the same thing. I just want to make sure that the, you know, the 57 people that are going to listen to this episode. Yeah, pro kettlebell club. They're going to be a pro kettlebell branded kettlebell. So, so that's going to be the, that's going to be the website to go to. Awesome. I hope your 3D model comes in exactly to, to spec in your, you're super excited because I think the demand will never be higher than it's right now in the US for access to exercise equipment that they can use at home. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, to answer, I remember one of the comments on Facebook was about, you know, well, we have different sizes. And so the thought process was for the professional, you know, once you start getting into professional men's weights, that's, that's where the size increase was going to happen. Yeah, and that's 24 to 32 kilos for the uninitiated. I mean, 24 is still considered amateur, but you start getting into that, that still is a training weight for most professionals 24 to 24 to 32 kilos, right? Yeah. And so the, the sizes under that would just be slightly smaller. They fit most people's frames and, you know, yeah, and that's a, yeah, but I think probably Kim Fox would appreciate, I've met Kim Fox and I think he would appreciate a bell that was maybe shaped a little bit more ergonomically. Yeah, and I don't think she, I don't think she would complain about about it, having a 35 millimeter handle either she's tough as nails, so you're not going to get many complaints from her. Right. So, but, you know, Jordan, the, the biggest market in the beginning, and I love the sport, the biggest market, and the future of the sport is really to the new people. Absolutely. And so, I want to make sure that every new person that comes in and says, okay, I've heard great things about kettlebells, I'm going to try them out, but they pick up a kettlebell and they have a good experience. And it feels like that kettlebell is made for their arm. Yeah. And not everybody has that experience. And like you said before, you know, you have to be massacistic to kind of get into kettlebells. Well, that shouldn't be the case. It should really be open and available for, you know, anybody who wants to do it, they should be able to do it and not feel like they're getting a hammer slammed on the back of their arm every time they pick the thing up. Well, I will, I will quote Valeria a little bit, you know, he was, he was the first person I got a certification from me, he said, well, the kettlebell is teaching a lesson if it's slamming into your ass. You know, he said the same thing when my hands were torn up, you know, after after doing the pantathlon the first time, he's like, I kettlebell is teaching a lesson that you need to work on your form, but I completely, I, you know, that's just an aside, I completely agree with you. I absolutely want to lower the barrier of entry. And I think if we can viciously optimize for the best product experience for new people and lower the barrier of entry so that we can get as many people into into the sport and use it as a, you know, I'm just giving them into kettlebells in general, even if they never compete. If they just feel confident and comfortable with they can pick up a kettlebell and express their athleticism and feel feel like they know what they're doing and they're not going to hurt themselves, I think that's, I think that's fantastic. Right, yeah, right, this is, it goes back to helping as many people get what they want. And, you know, once people get into the sport, you know, those people are all, that's the, you're preaching to the choir at that point. Yeah, you know, and I mean, it's getting these people that are, you know, are they going to buy a peloton, you know, or they're going to buy a set of kettlebells. And a peloton is great because you can just hop on that thing and you start riding away and, you know, it's pretty easy to do. It doesn't hurt, except for the cardio burn and the lactic build up, but, you know, the kettlebell can be kind of dangerous if, if you're, if you don't know what you're doing and if the kettlebell is not, I did this, I, uh, man, should I say that, no, I can't say the name because they paid me money. But, uh, there's a kettlebell out there that is the most god awful shape I've ever seen before. It's got the, the center of mass is so far from the handle that when it whips around on you, it's like getting hit with a sledgehammer and it's got a ledge that digs into the back of your forearm. It's just like it's so bad for, for people learning how to do kettlebells, like one time picking it up and you'll never want to touch a kettlebell again. And that's, that's got to stop because, you know, there's a lot of people have been in this kettlebell business for a long time and they've essentially lost their shirts because they believe in it so much. Not enough people will do it because it is so hard to, to hold the darn things, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, there's so many low quality kettlebells out there too that you can get it target or Walmart or whatever. Then you're, that are cheap and plastic and the wrong shape and, you know, there's just so many bad, I mean, even, even beyond what the, the model that you're talking about, which I think I know who you're talking about, but we won't, we won't put you in any hot water, but you know, there's even even lower standards than that that are out there and that's, that's one of the things that I, I try and rail quietly against, I rage against that a little bit is, you know, you get what you pay for a little bit. You've got to, you've got to invest at least to a decent level of quality or it's not going to be a good experience. Right, right. Yeah, I'd say, you know, the most comfortable ones, I, I think are out there right now are those kettlebell kings, you know, those are probably the most comfortable ones. I like the kettlebell USA ones. Pro paradigms. Yeah, those are nice. You know, I think you crave what you're fed so if you use, you know, if you use something enough, you just learn to like it. And then Vulcan's got a kettlebell is kind of a mix between a comp bell and a fitness bell. Yeah, the wider, the wider handle you can actually do a two hand swing on it with the wider window on those ones. And I kind of like that one. You know, but the thing is. None of them are available. Yeah. And are they going to be available in the next couple months? I don't know. Listen, if you listen, I'm on the mailing list for all of them. If you listen to Mike Pompeo or Secretary of State, it doesn't look good. Yeah, we'll see. I'm on the mailing list. I keep, I keep waiting for that update saying that they're going to be back in stock. I'm going to give out some information here. I probably, maybe I shouldn't. My wife told me to keep my mouth shut. But like getting stuff imported from China is going to be very difficult in the future, I think. And. I don't think you're talking out of turn to say that. Yeah, if you are against. Bad labor practices. You know what I mean? Yeah, I, that's your, you're made the one. The fact that you're making them in the USA, I'm. Dude, I'm, I'm, I'm all in. Like, that's, that's fantastic. I am, I am all for that because I am absolutely 100% with you that. The convenience that we pay for with the low price points is on the back of someone else's exploitation. You know, and that there's, we have to reconcile with that at some point. Yep. And there's a price that you pay for that, you know. That low cost, there's always a price in the long run, whether it's karmic or, you know. Low quality or somebody, you know, it always comes around to bite you. And I think where it's like low, it's like cheap food, right? Cheap foods only cheap on the front end. It's really expensive on the back end for your health. Yep. So I'm excited, I'm excited to be able to go and physically walk into the plant where these things are made and, and see how they're done and have a hand. And, and, and like what, what the manufacturing process is and how they're, how they're packaged up and how they're delivered and all that. Are you, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to share any trade secrets without you. Are you comfortable saying where they're being made? You can say the state or the foundry. I mean, whatever level, especially if you're comfortable with, I don't, I don't want to. Also, they're being made in Washington state. I'm not going to give away the foundry and tell, I'm a little bit closer to. Yeah, understandable. That's why I didn't want to put you in that position. Yeah, but I got a feeling, you know, Rogues already doing it, you know, they're making stuff in the United States. There's another kettlebell company that's making them in the US too. But what they're making is they're making past iron hard style kettlebells. Yeah. And they haven't changed anything. And, you know, I have a feeling. If you have my kettlebell in one arm and any other kettlebell in the other arm, you're going to say, what am I doing with this other kettlebell? This is the one I want. You know what I mean? Okay, don't get me in trouble for needing to replace all of my kettlebells. It's going to be, my wife is going to be really upset if I'm like, honey, I got to get rid of these 26 kettlebells I have. And I tell you what, and people are, you know, ever. As far as getting them into competitions, you know what, you know how people will want them in competitions or how they'll be allowed in competitions. If, if I want them in competitions, I'll just say, well, how about I donate, you know, all the kettlebells for your competition, then all of a sudden they'll be allowed in the competition. You know what I mean? Yeah. And money talks, of course, it comes down to everybody has trouble getting kettlebells. And all these competitions have trouble getting lifters. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, you know, it is what it is. So whatever competitions have kettlebells and have lifters, those are the ones that, you know, are happening. And to be clear, like they're going to meet the international specs, you know, they have to have a 35 millimeter handle at a certain point and they have to have a 33 millimeters a lot at a certain point on the bell. And they have to have a certain, I have to have a certain weight to them within a certain level of accuracy. And they'll meet all those specs. So I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed other than politics, which is a whole other conversation that we probably don't have time for. But, sure, you know, I think you're, I think you're 100% right that we can, we can figure that out. And I think, I think the lifters, what the lifters want will end up ruling the day. Right. And obviously there's precedent to draw from, from Olympic lifting. Absolutely. Yep. So I think the sport is ready to advance and, you know, they're hungry for it. And kettlebells are, there's a, there's a lot of demand for them right now. And there's a lot of new people that are getting started doing it. And so I think it's just the, it's, it's the best opportunity right now. Absolutely. It's sowing season right now for sure. I think, I think you're, you're in a great position. And I'm really excited with all the things that you have, that you have in the work. So kudos to you. And there's anything I can do to support you. I'm, I'm happy to do so. And I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. I want to be respectful of your time. And, you know, we'll wrap up. We're a little over an hour. But I want to, I want to really thank you for, thank you for your time. How do people find you on the social medias? And, you know, obviously you're at, you know, Seattle kettlebell club and pro kettlebell. But, you know, how do they find you on social media as an individual or as a brand? You know, whatever you want people to follow. Pretty, pretty much the, the brand. I limit my own personal social media. You know, but Seattle kettlebell club and pro kettlebell are the, are the brands and. You know, that's. That's where they can find us. They're doing free workout Fridays every Friday. Pro kettlebell, the pro kettlebell puts out a free workout class, right? Where you guys, you guys anybody can come and check it out, right? That's right. That's right. And, you know, just, there'll be opportunity. I'm doing a lot of videos right now. And right now I use my members, but there'll be a lot of opportunity for other. You know, the kettlebell professionals to be able to, you know, help provide. Material and input or be part of the videos. If they like to do that and maybe promote their own brand. I'm looking forward to being able to provide a platform for those, those people too. Well, I'm not super good looking, but I would be, I would be happy to be a part of that. I'd be happy to support it anyway in any way that I can. So I would love to do that. Yeah, yeah, we love it. And then I just got to say, you know, last time I had an interview done. I really did a terrible job of getting full credit to my wife, Amber, who, who works behind the scenes and actually has a lot of the ideas that I get credit for. And because I kind of, I'm in the gym and I do a lot of the training. But, you know, if we're not for her, there would be no Seattle kettlebell, there would be none of this. And, you know, she does all of this while, you know, we have three kids. And, you know, she rarely gets invited to be on the interviews because people don't see her, but she is. All that and more, you know, as far as getting things done. And so I just, I need to say, thank you, Amber, and I love you very much. Thank you very much for all your help. Shout out to Amber, that's awesome. And I would love to have her on to talk more about the business aspects. If she wants to talk more about the entrepreneurial journey, I'd be happy. I would be happy to talk to her because that's fantastic. And it's awesome that you guys have that strong partnership where, you know, you're trying to play to each other's strengths and supporting each other in this, in this venture that you've created together. So, you know, that's fantastic. I think it's key. It's key. You've got to have somebody, somebody to fill in your, your weak spots. Absolutely. 100% agree. Yeah. Well, thank you. All right. I appreciate your time, Nikolai, and have a good night. And thank you for, for being on. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Jordan. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Have a good day. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright. If you have a question, please email me at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club at gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club, on Twitter at TCKB Club. Online at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club.com. And please help us grow our reach and give us a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time.