Denis Vasilev, 11x World Champion, MSIC & Coach (Part 2)

Kettlebell Drengir Rating Season will commence next year on October 14th. We will be once again at the Athlete Lab in Little Canada, Minnesota, for the third annual Twin Cities Kettlebell Open. Registration is now available. The lowest price it will be $60 until December 31st. For those of you brave enough to sign up now, you will be rewarded. Raffle prizes will once again be given to all participants and there will be a cash prize for those who wield the steel with great vigor. Come, fight for your clan, fight for yourself, and may your name forever ring out in the hall of champions. The platform podcast where we talk to coaches, athletes, experts and real people to learn about their approaches to training, nutrition, mindset and much more. I am your host, Jordan Kunde-Wright, founder and head coach of the Twin Cities Kettlebell Club. I want to mention to help others build sustainable, healthy lifestyles. Before we jump into the episode, I want to remind you that registration is live for the third annual Twin Cities Kettlebell Open. On October 14, hosted by our friends at the Athlete Lab in Little Canada, Minnesota, and the price is as low as it will be. Just $60 for super early bird registration from now until January 1st. Just go to our website, twincitieskettlebellclub.com slash TCKBOpen2023 to register. This week it is part two of my conversation with Denis Vasilev. In this episode, we focus more about his approach to coaching and how he coaches his athletes from a mindset perspective, pacing strategy, the different pacing for the different lifts, as well as what are some of the benchmarks that he uses to assess, whether or not you're prepared to move up to the next weight, and much, much more. Dennis is a phenomenal coach and he was a big influence on me as a coach and as a lifter I worked with him as my coach for a while early in my career, and he has great systems and just a great mindset for how he approaches it, and it really resonated with me, and I harvested a lot of his techniques, and adapted them and evolved them into my own approach. He's been a major influence on me as a coach, as well as a lifter, and I'm grateful for my time working with him and happy to count him as a peer and a friend, so I really hope you enjoy this episode. I also am very grateful that you listened to this podcast, and of course the best way you could support me is to come lift with me at the Twincitieskettlebell Open next year on October 14th. And maybe tell a friend or two, bring your team, just go to our website for details, and of course if you haven't already please be sure to leave a rating and review of the platform podcast in your app of choice and support my work by supporting our sponsors whose affiliate links you will find in the episode notes. And of course if you want help reaching your goals, without wasting time, please fill out the coaching interest form linked in the episode notes. I help athletes of all levels using my integrated coaching approach. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Twincitieskettlebell Club, or email me at Twincitieskettlebell Club at gmail.com. Now without further ado, let's step back onto the platform with Mr. Denis Vasilev. So I'm going to pivot away from you as an athlete a little bit because you're also a phenomenal coach. And you studied exercise science and physical culture. That's what your training is in as well, your education is in. And you've put out a really good kettlebell coaching manual that if nobody's, if you haven't read it, you sell it for like 50 bucks and it's not like a textbook. It's a fairly compact read, but it's super, super useful because you've spelled out an approach, a systematic approach to programming kettlebell sport in a way that I think is consumable for most people to understand. But I'm curious as a coach, what do you think mentally, we'll start with mentally, and I'm going to ask you about physical as well, but mentally, what do you think is the most important attribute for success as a kettlebell lifter, and how do you prepare that in your athletes? That's probably one of the biggest challenges and skills to find a key to your own brain, what unlock your ability or your confidence, what makes your brave to go for it. And that's my variety really widely, you know, what's motivated home. And for myself, I'm trying to be well as I'll say practical or accurate. But for me, my spreadsheet gives me a lot of confidence, I'm just trying to, you know, believe what I understand and believe on what I've done. So every time I know it's about competitions, I'm kind of trying to talk to myself, okay, you know, why I'm nervous, am I not ready for it? Kind of just kind of checkpoints, you know, and I say, well, I'm still pretty ready. And now I'm working out like for this particular, why I haven't break for years and years. And then this particular training cycle, I start two months ago, I have exact date and must preach it when I started it. And then you know, there's a number of pre-competition tests that should be done that sort of prove you're ready for it. Seven minutes, the five minutes said, you know, two reps above the pace, seven minutes said, one rep above the pace, strong last minute. I don't tend once, and I'm kind of going through it and my fail, any single workout, not like, like, how's my hands, you know, no blisters, okay, his skin is okay, how's my body feel back is okay, you know, shoulders is okay. It seems like not injured, so it should work, you know, let's go. So you're very, so it sounds like you're very analytical and it's like when you have doubt, you're like, look at the data, and you're like, I have these, these objective data points, tell me that there's no reason to be nervous. And that that reduces your, that reduces your nerves because you know, like, if I can do seven minutes at pace and everything feels good, then I'm ready. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's often it was like to the level, this conflict of, you know, like this, I can, I'll say, spirit and sorts, like, was such argument that I always was get met on myself and like, maybe you can, you know, beep and sort of the video, but I basically start like, stop crying, bitch. What's up, come on, you know, what's your shaking is just, just, you're ready for it. Let's go. Let's, let's do the work. Well, of course, it's another thing. So, well, and again, as a coach, my approach, also to, and what I always motivate my students, just consistency, consistency is the key. And honestly, through all my coaching experience and years, someone called, like, the least of all of the possible troubles or difficulties I'm working with my students, the consistency is number one. Not the lack of mobility or, you know, hand and social reposition, just consistency. It's somehow, you know, just difficult for people to just show up three times a week and work out. Different reasons, you know, it can be serious reasons. It can be sometimes not that serious reasons, but when you're outlit and when you want to perform something, there's no such thing as, you know, good serious excuse. It should be no excuses at all. You know, like, when I'm talking about a cyborg, you know, being a cyborg. And while it's something about that, that you just, well, it's again, for me, it just, it just, just mathematics, it just clear understanding. I just know that the moment I skip the workout, I reduce my chances. Just smart, you know, from 100, well, it's probably never 100% but, you know, from 99, it's 98. I think else, I don't know, skip another workout of 97. You just reduce your chances and I know that it's reduced my confidence when I will be finally, you know, I just don't want to do that to myself. I think that's the hardest thing about this sport is like, it's both, it's both the easy, it's like the, it's the double edge sort of this sport. Like you, the great thing about it is, if you're not prepared, or if you are prepared, you've earned that result on the platform and really it's just, it's just going to be a revelation of the preparation you've put into it. But also, if you show up unprepared, there is fucking nothing you can do mentally, like you can't hype yourself up to be able to, like, will your way to a PR, like, there's nothing you can, like if you didn't put in the time, you can't fake it in this sport. Like, there is no, there is no faking it. You're either prepared to hit the number and you've earned that number in training or you haven't. Like, it's, it's just one of those that's, that's crazy to me. Now, the mental part of it is a different, is a different piece. Like, you can have, you can have earned a number in training and it doesn't happen on the, on the day because you got inside your head or, or something happens. But you can't go the other way where it's like, oh, I didn't put in the time and I just, everything went right on, everything went right on the competition and I was just able to miraculously pull out a PR. Like, it doesn't work like that. You've either put in the work or you haven't. Yeah, PR for sure will not happen by accident. You can, you see, especially if you advance, get the belief or experience, get the belief when it's not the first competitions in your career. Let's say you had a rough, training cycle. You're not really in your best. You still can make the set. But, yeah, you should be realistic. That's another thing that, you know, I'm not saying that, let's say, if it wasn't a perfect training cycle, you shouldn't compete. But you're, again, should adjust than your expectations. Yeah. And again, you say, okay, you know, I means that and that and that was kind of, you know, my seven minute test. So it seems like the best I can pull out from today's set is an 80 reps. That just marks and then you should, you should stick with it. You know, you shouldn't let emotions go and say, Oh, I feel so great. No, no, no, no, I will go for nine. It just, it will, you know, these emotions, they will never, you know, be able to overlap like your actual physical physical shapes. It's important for you to, before you start to get motivated yourself to understand where your physical abilities are for, for today. And then you apply all your spirit to perform, you know, this calculated realistic errors because even it might seem kind of like maybe easy target compared to like your absolute PR, but believe me, it will be the hardest set you ever done. Because you just not integrate shape and you will need all this motivation to just hit this humble number for today. Yeah, but if there's any mistakes in this, if you did the wrong calculation of what your realistic result for today is or you let your emotions go a little bit too high and you just, you know, let it go. And big, the wrong kind of face strategies. So this whole thing swell, kettlebells will fight back and you're really hard time. The kettlebells are always there to humble you if you come into proud or to cocky. That is, that is for sure. Let's talk about the math real quick because you mentioned this and I love this. This is one of the things I love about your textbook, too, is like, you have a very clear, like, if you, if you can hit these numbers in your preparation, this is what you can expect as your output. There's a very, there's a very kind of clear, a clear focus on like, if you can hit this in training, this is what's realistic for you, if you can hit this, this is what's realistic. What are the, what are kind of like the objective benchmarks that you use for like pacing with your athletes? And we'll just say like, for example, somebody that wants to hit 200 snatches, right? Like, what are you, what are you looking at? Like, what are the objective numbers that you're looking at for them to be able to to know that on comp day, they can hit 200, 200 reps with whatever way it is that they're going for, but like that they can hit that number. Snitch actually the most mathematics exercise. That's why I picked that one. And most, well, cyclic type of performance, you know, closes to, like, you know, this family of us, cyclic sports, yeah, like rowing, swimming, cyclic. Yeah. So we can, so we can take it, it's had the greatest amount of repetition versus other capable sport exercises. And while my very first question will be, like, have you done this to 200 reps with one way down. Let's say if it's if your goal is 200 snatches with 24, well, even like, okay, let's not talk about 22, 20s. You know, what's your best with 20s? What's your best with 16s? And that's usually gives a pretty accurate answer and understanding, okay, what was the chances? Because if you want to hit 100 with 24, but, well, that's, you know, you, you know, that's a decent example, you know, that's a good rep. But most like, of course, I've done some said before, but, well, let's say if it's, you know, only 200 reps with 20s was done before that. Well, I would say that, you know, it's probably well, well, not wore this way, like, you know, you're always, you know, losing a bit of a pace. Well, 200 snatches with 24, you need at least to 20 with 20s, with 20 kilogram and well, about 240 with 16. And then it's often happened that actually when we look on competition weights with 4 kilogram in command, it can be quite an un-proportional difference. It's not a, that's what makes it tricky is it's not a linear degradation. It's not like, oh, if I'm going to go up by, if I'm going to go up by 4 kilos, that's a, that's a 20% increase. So I need to be 20% over the numbers. Like, as you get heavier, the rate of decay is actually greater than that. So you'll actually see like, oh, if I'm going to go from 24 to 28, if I want to hit 200 with 28, I don't need to hit to 20 with 24s. I need to hit like 240 with 24s. If I'm going to hit, if I'm going to be able to hit 200 with 28s because the heavier you go, the greater that rate of decay and pace capability. It usually is. But with your experience, as long as you do it, it's actually more linear, it became it's more kind of smoother. Yeah, that's very true. And, and for, for big, for guys who's in the beginning of their journey, I'm not talking about like very first competition, but again, you know, like a few years seen, where let's say, you know, it's like often, you know, lightweight, quite predictable. And then, you know, like closer to your heaviest way, that might be like some. For example, for example, I know, 200 snitches with 20 and then only 150 with 24, right. And let's say in and 220 with 16. So it seems like kind of, you know, for 16 to 24 just a little bit of inclined. And then it's a fall to a big weight. And for that reason, two kilogram increment right away, the first thing to do because, okay, if we have 50 reps difference between 20 to 24, the most like me, myself as a coach, I'm most curious and excited. Okay, what rap this person will get with 32. You know, so we have like, let's say right in the middle will be 175 right between 250. And of course, like how, like where, how close he will be to this 175 will he be able to bear it above, if it's above, that's a good sign. It means that PR coming was 24. If he below, well, it means that PR is not coming and problem even through the behind, then, then 22 and probably for the behind and 20s. And for me, that will be a call that, hey, we probably needs to reset and just redo the work on 16s and 18s and we basically will need to improve the PR on 20s. So that was going to be my follow-up question is if an athlete is coming to and you're like, they're going for 200 on, they're going for 200 on 24s. You test them on the 22s and they come in below 175. Would you then encourage them as the coach to say, hey, maybe you should compete with 20s for this competition because I don't think you're ready for the for the 24s or would you tell them, or would you tell them you can still go on 24s, but your target is not 200, your target is 160. Or 170, would you just lower their expectations with 24s or would you try and encourage them to go with the lower weight and try and hit their target pacing to keep building that capacity that they're trying to build. I prefer to not change the course halfway. You know, I feel like it's you ruined the experiment this this way, you know, this whole like it because all these calculations you've done. Okay, we start there and we do this and that and that and the end I expect to this thing happen. And I always feel like even, you know, if it's going not exactly according to plan, I'm still curious to see what's happening there because that's how you can learn something from this training site. So changing it down to the 20s would be introducing a confounding variable that would invalidate the results of the experiment or make it harder to interpret the results of the experiment. It's not often happened, but it's might happen that actually even, you know, training cycle was a bit great, but competitions weren't fairly smooth, you know, from where it can go. So that's why I feel like well, if only it's a matter of like some injury and health risk, well, then you know, that's a different, that's a different, yeah, that's a different story. I push my, yeah, push my student to like, you know, show his character, he's just not smart and safe, but as long as health is okay, I always prefer to go for the beginning to the end. And you know, get the result on competition weights and then just look on it, analyze and see where was the gaps. And well, go for next training cycle and try to do it better. So for the different, for the different lifts, what are kind of the target paces that you think people generally should be hitting before they move up to the next, to the next weight. So like for snatch, what's your, what's your target pace that you want to see your athletes being able to consistently hit over 10 minutes before you think they're ready for the next weight? 50 and 50 and I feel like it's just pretty comfortable, you know, kind of relaxed pace for snitch. I think that that's that's the result, you know, even for where if you're set, we're so as a comfortable lightweight, so we should have a snitch. How about jerk and long cycle? What do you push, what do you, what are you trying to target? Jerk is, well, 100 is a good, good number. Well, yeah, three digits, I would say it's it, like if it's 90 or 80, 98 of that from a kind of a long cycle type of result, you know, in jerk. I, I, I'd rather see three digits in, in jerk, even with lighter weights. Well, I have, I have a very specific question for you and I'm, this is for somebody, this is, this is for somebody in particular, Josh from our Canada chat group. He, he consistently hits more numbers on long cycle than he does on jerk or, or they're very similar, they're, they're likes. And have you seen this as a coach and what do you, what do you, what do you attribute that to? Because we're always, we're always trying to, we're giving them a hard time. We're like, we're like, Josh, you hit 80 long cycle and you hit like 82 jerk, you know that there, you know that there's, you know that there's a jerk in every long cycle, right? And he's like, I can't spread it out though. So I can't go as fast. I'm, I'm curious, have you, have you seen that as a coach where you have athletes that can go, can hit close to the same output on long cycle as they can on jerk? Well, that's a long cycleist, long cycle guys, you know I still consider myself as a long cycleist. I'm definitely, you know, better and more comfortable in long cycle even I've made decent progress in, in biathlon, but it just, you know, for me that, that the sign that actually, well, there is some work on technique that should be done. And even, you know, many long cycleist hate the jerk myself at the beginning, I was not enjoying it at all, but it makes you better, it makes you better, you know, it just this kind of, you know, this medicines that, you know, you just needs to take to do better. Well, I credit, I credit you with, with co, I credit you and coach coach Vivio from Texas kettlebell academy with, with actually getting me to love, getting me to love jerk. So I can understand that you got to take, you got to eat your vegetables as it when it comes to improving your, your jerk technique. So, yeah, yeah. Okay, I have, I have, I have a couple more questions for you, I want to be respectful of your time, but I'm also, I have like, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours, I have a whole list of other questions I want to get into, but I'm curious what you were talking about, what are the different physical characteristics of different lifters, right? And if you could, if you could like build an ideal kettlebell sport athlete, right? Like you can make a kettlebell sport cyborg from, from, from humans, like what, what would, what would be the ideal, like, physical traits, like skeleton wise and then like, what type of athlete, like what type of athletic background would you like him to have, like, when they come to you as a kettlebell sport athlete, like, what do you think makes the best kettlebell sport athletes? Well, it comes to guys with experience, of course, the ones who came from games, it's a baseball, baseball basketball soccer, like kind of just endurance coordination guys, you know, they picking up technique real quick, and then endurance sports, you know, rowers, cyclists, people who can suffer. Yeah, yeah, who can suffer, who can take the pain and have endurance, they're doing great. Most difficult guys is weight lifters, to work with, like, power lifters, bodybuilders, because they just... I feel attacked here. Well, mobility, mobility is the challenging, the challenging for them, it just, and well, I went through it myself, that also for the boring can slow work to improve your mobility, you know, body... And that consistency piece comes in again, you got to do it every day. Yeah, and that's just frustrating, you know, because, again, you feel so strong, but, you know, when Elmo is not resting, he just makes it so horrible. There's experience, shoulders burn, and you cannot really put any, like, a strategy to your set, you know, pace yourself, just because it's a struggle. So, I mean, in controversy, let's say, when you're missing, you're not strong enough. Well, you know, at least you can have a decent set with lightweight, and maybe work on strengths, but, you know, polish your technique. But, yeah, when there is no reposition and flexibility is the issue, that's kind of slowing down the process a little bit. But then it's kind of like a change in routine, because you kind of need to give up at least for some time on favorite exercises, you know, start to bench less, you know, squat less, and do the boring stuff, you know, lying on the yoga mat, you know, and stretch and then run. But, well, often, guys, who show up in the gym, they willing to do that. So, again, that's a day and what's important is you want to do it or not, that's why I never really try to convince anyone to do kettlebell sport. I think the first step is always up to a student, you know, if you understand what it's about, and if you want to do it, I'm here to help you, and it doesn't matter for me, what's your background, I actually have a more difficult situation, it's more exciting than curious, and I am to just make it work for you. But if you don't want it, I don't think I can help you, you know, and even for yourself, you know, because it's hard workouts, you know, at least, you know, you can do it to help yourself, to go through it if you like it, you know, if you like something that you're looking for. Kettlebell Drenge, thank you for rating with me. You wielded the steel with honor, grit, determination, and bravery. Thank you to everyone who participated in this year's Twin Cities Kettlebell Open. Thank you again to our sponsors, Barefoot Athletics, Pro Kettlebell, Kettlebell Kings, Living.Fit, Sorenson Strong, CK Maceworks, Belovator, and Verizon Home Internet. Thank you for yourselves for rating season to come again in 2023. Keep your steel sharp, keep your body fit, and your mind ready, and I will be back to tell you when it is time for rating to commence. But, well, I'm not a physically wise, well, blessing for credible lifters, white pellets, and either short torso and long arms, or well, you know, or purpose, so basically you really want to be able to reach your pelvis by elbows. Long humorous bones, long femurs, right, we want those. Yeah, height wise, I think it's good to be medium, high like when you're a very tall guy, you're just the distance of travel. You have to move the belt all the way. Yeah, tall athletes, but it seems like it will be just natural and, you know, raps and pace will go well if you like. Well, it's actually kind of a true annoyed, like if we're talking about a perfect mixed martial artist, it's also not the huge and biggest guy. Yeah, it's kind of well, it's not probably it's not the middle way, but it feels like about like 200 pounds ish, you know, like six foot, maybe six, one, six, two, but, you know, not much more than that. And guys like, well, Mike Tyson, he was like really, really slow, a small, very small than the others, but well, even like a holy field, he is also not much bigger than Tyson and then. I want to say, well, as far as, like, I know this, you know, he's also like about six foot tall, like, great, great. So it seems like this kind of, you know, body weight and height allows you to pack enough mass carry some carry some mass, but not so much mass that you gas out and that you're that you're carrying too much. You can be fast enough, able to run some, yeah, somewhere between like middle middle and cruise weight probably. And, and when you, when you get, you know, and this is part of the fun of being a coach, right, like when you, when you get somebody who comes to you and they, they have, they have the good and good anatomy. And do you, do you encourage people, like, they come to you and they're like, oh, I really, I really want to be a long cycleist, but you look at him and you're like, actually, you're built for jerk, like you've got, you know, like, you've got, you've got short, you've got short, powerful legs, you've got long arms, right, but, you know, you're, you're actually built for, like, do you, do you, do you encourage athletes to go the direction based on what you see as a, as like their strengths is from, from an athletic perspective or an anatomy perspective, or you just kind of let them go with what they're passionate about. Well, it's kind of a little bit a little bit of a boss because on one hand, it's very important for students to have desire to explore and work hard. And if the person is really kind of, you know, pumped and really wants to do a joke, I think, you know, should take advantage of it as a coach, you know, because he will be just sitting this workout one after another. But I will just make sure that he really understands what he's asking for. I can, I can personally attest to this because what I told you, I wanted to do a 10, I said, I wanted to do a 10 minute triathlon with the 24 kilos. You said, you said, are you sure I was the first thing you said, are you sure you really want to do that because I don't think you realize what you're telling me you want. I said, yes, yes, I'm, yes, I'm sure, because, you know, like I. Sure, it's like, let's say, doing a long cycle and snitch together. I mean, at the beginning, yeah, it's probably will be fun, but, you know, if we're talking about like serious preparation, no type of troubles you will face, you know, when OK, easy work is over, fun is over. And now it's a decent weight of one cycle, big sets, and now it's tough snitch, like, you know, palms, forearms, just too much. Hand, hand, tears, yeah, all the fun of doing that. Yeah, but as long as a person understands what type of work is ahead, well, then, you know, why not, why not, because also, you know, experiment is the part of a journey to find yourself. And, you know, I'm just well, as the coach will do my best to protect students from engineering and just get the most, you know, of a programming we can, you know, in such goals. But, yeah, I never, like, strictly pushing my students, you know, or if you work with me, we're doing it all cycle first, always. And never doing a joker snitch. No, it's always a conversation, you know, I always kind of trying to, if I have opinion, I just unfold, you know, all of the facts or knowledge, you know, that support my opinion. And, you know, if a person agree with that, you know, so, you know, we're going positive, if you have something to tell, you know, that, you know, sometimes my change my mind, you have some particular reasons to do, you know, this, this particular way. Well, then, yeah, we'll go and we'll do it. Okay. All right. I'm going to give you two, I'm going to give you two more questions, because I do want to let you go on time here as close to it as possible. So, the first question is for you personally, what are you kind of focused on now, because you've already, you've, I think you've, I mean, I would say, but maybe, maybe not, you've probably achieved as much as you can achieve as a competitor in this, in this sport. Like, what are you, so what are you, what are you working on, like, what still motivates you now to, to continue pursuing it at the level that you've pursued it for so long? Well, my approach to training routine from very beginning was that it's more of building your hails rather than, you know, getting creative for fight and some extraordinary performance. I know it was motivated much by just winning some particular competition, it feels like a logical end of a preparation and it's like getting a mark in school, you know, you did a great homework, you get a, you know, you did a bad job. You get, like, deal, you know, some lower zone, that's why I feel like, okay, if, if, if I did a really great job, programming, you know, in all this, like, perdition and consistency and work, well, it makes sense to do well on competition and this diploma is more sweet for me, the proof of correct, technique with all of your lifestyle, I'm doing it, not exactly the confirmations that I'm better than someone else. In fact, I never ever put it this way, I never really, you know, was like, going to competitions to beat someone or win someone, I just, you know, had my particular goal, you know, my head, it's a 90 reps or whatever reps and I'm going for it. So it sounds like it sounds like you were, you were focused on being your best as opposed to being the best, you were just focused on like, what am I capable of, what is my best today, what am I capable of right now and never really focusing on on anything external to your own performance. And then in some time, because at the beginning, it wasn't much of a sympathy to capable sport, again, because of the technique issue, but through the time I get more and more into it and now completely and fully fan of capable sport and I believe I think that it's, that it's a good for you. Just in general, you know, it's a way of just exercise and my experiment now is just to prove it right, you know, and retire with bells and just feel good and I'm actually really looking forward to, wow, I made it so my soul is crazy, you know, be 40 years next year. But I'm looking forward for my 40s will see how far will I make, you know, in this life, well, you know, 50s or 60s and I'm just trying to prove my training mythology right on my own example and basically I'm just trying to keep. And your wife, you train, you train your wife, you coach your wife, you are a brave brave man, that is, that is, that is very brave, how is that. It's going, it's going well. Yeah, we did some, well, sure. Has she ever made a mistake or does, or is she always doing a fantastic, you're always doing a fantastic job on it? How hard do you, how hard do you coach her? Does she, does she want you to give her the hard feedback? We're doing, we're doing pretty well and actually once in a while lately she's curious to actually try her own programming. So well, she might like come back, let's say follow cycle or have some advice, but like she should have had experiment training cycle in snatch and she did well 180 snatches. Just with, with 16 because before that it was like your very second set and the first one, we did like 150 and it wasn't at 10 minutes, but was a pretty decent result was 14 like was, I think, 180. And so she, well, she seemed like she figured out my programming pretty well. That's what happened with students who are curious about programming as well. That's my own story because I've learned it also like my first inspiration was Sergei Rajinsky coaching, because you know, it was his thinking, but I was the one who was executing it and you know, just was making notes and it took me a few years to understand what exactly going on. But then I said, okay, you know, connecting those understand, you know, this go after this and that and like again, you know, also speaking with the teammates or other coaches, you know, you've learned also something else and that's. Well, that's the beauty of the sport. That's why I think you know, through generations results going up because there's always some main inspiration for a new coach, but then at the end he's something else. He's not exact continuation of his coach. Yeah. And even like my training metal, you know, it's it's inspired in a big part of a Sergei Rajinsky coaching, but I also, you know, learn something from Sergei Rudnia from Sergei Merkulin, you know, and there's GP and some like, you know, like, the details and tips I know from Alexander Klastov and plus my own experience. So it is slightly transformed to something else. So, I'm always happy for success and I'm cheering for success of other outlets of students. I just, you know, I have just general sympathy to capable sport and I think it says more people succeed. It's better for all of us. So I never had this, you know, jealousy that all, you know, he was my student, and he's not mine anymore. And, you know, burn and help. No, it just, I think it's just it's just wrong. You know, and even myself, personally, again, I just, it's, we're seeking for results outlets. We want to succeed. And sometimes we lost, and you know, we just need a help to find ourselves. And sometimes you need to just try something else to understand that what you've done before is good. Even like 2011, I meet coach Rudni, and I was so impressed with against his life, very much like scientific approach that I just asked Sergei, Russian Sergei, please, can I just take a break from your coaching and just try a couple of training cycles with coach Rudni? And he said, yeah, sure. Yeah, try it. Let me know how to go. And again, you know, we're just honestly, you know, what was going through it. And, you know, we still was, wasn't actually never was like making me know, like I, like eyeballing me or something like that. You were just, you know, well, here was curious and wishing me a success. And actually, by the end of it, I still kind of realized that, you know, there are like three, four, three new cycles that still like better, the general approach of Sergei and then Sergei. Like, can you please take back? No, it's normal. And he said, only because you hit a hundred reps when you promised you would. Yeah, so that's why, yeah, I think I'm kind of, you know, trying to, you know, share, you know, my knowledge and the best, the best I can, but, you know, it's not always only the way to go. And I always, you know, blessing can cheer for all my students or just people I know if they want to try something else. You are, you are incredibly generous with your knowledge and with your energy. Like, you know, one of the things I don't even know if you remember, but the first time I met you was in Chicago many, many years ago, it was at, it was at one of my first kettlebell sport competitions. And you came in banged out a long cycle set. And I was in total awe. And I, and I fan boy really hard and came up and talk to you after, after your set. And I was just so impressed. Because I was, I was like brand new in the sport. And you answered every question I had. You, you spent so much time with me. You signed my medal. Like I still have that medal that has your signature on it. And that was like a big part of what got me into this sport. And it's now, you know, a passion of mine. Because, because of you and how generous you were with, with your time and your energy and your, you're just such a great ambassador for the sport. So I, so I can't, I can't thank you enough because it's been a huge part of my life. And it's really, it has changed the trajectory of my life. And you're, you're a big part of that. So thank you for that. But here we go. We see and you are, we're ambassador now yourself. Thank you. I think a really good, a good community around and that's, that's exactly, that's exactly the point. Yeah. Because well, then you will, you know, also teach someone else. You know, it's like a branch on the trees. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I have one more question for you. And it's the, it's the one that I like to ask at the end for most interviews. And it's, if you could give, you've got a brand new lifter and, and they're like, I can't afford a coach, but I really wanted, I just want one piece of advice. Like, give me, give me the one thing that one thing that you wish I knew, I'm just getting started. Like what is the one piece of advice that you give to a brand new lifter that they're just getting started in this kettlebell sport journey. If you could only tell them one thing, what would that, what would that piece of advice be? I'm not sure if I can fit that in the short sequence, but a sentence, but I think for person who's doing a very first step, well, it should be, it should be the right one. It should be step in there in the right direction. So it's for me, the very first thing I'm thinking about is just the order of things. 10 minutes set, second, and then numbers is sort. So that's, that's the way you're trying to get into the set. So it's important at the beginning to, first on this, like learn the technique and, and training methodology, just how it should be done and then start pushing and working hard on it. So focus on the technique, then finish the time, then, then focus on what your output is. Nice. That's, that was pretty, that was pretty short. That was, that was very succinct. That was, that was great. Well, Dennis, thank you, thank you so much for taking the time. I, I really, I really appreciate it. I have a whole bunch of other questions we could, we could get into about the IKO and all of the, all of the other pieces that you also do for the sport, but I don't want to, I don't want to put you on a four-hour podcast. So I'm going to, I'm going to say thank you for your time. I'd love to have you back sometime. We can, we can talk more about training philosophy more deeply. Talk about IKO, but, you know, it was great to get to hear a little bit about your, your background and, you know, appreciate you being so generous with your time and I, I just want to thank you for coming on. Well, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, been a pleasure. Always great talk to you. Thanks, Dennis. All right, we're clear. I want to show you something real quick. I do, I do genuinely want to be respectful of your time, but I also want to show you this because I think you'll appreciate it. The other, the other thing that I, I didn't mention you, you kind of created, I was already a spreadsheet nerd, but you kind of created a monster. So I'll show you, I'll show you what I, what I use with my athletes here. This, this is my, I now have, I actually have two versions where, where I, this should probably look, look somewhat familiar to you where I have, I have your spreadsheet, but I, I changed it a little bit, but now I have, you know, all three, all three lifts, we track it all in one place. I specify their, what, what competition waiter we're working with, what's their prescribed pace for each of the three lifts. And in the spreadsheet, they track, you know, they track what they're, what I prescribed versus what they actually did. You know, and I have it, I have it phased out in the, in the various, in the various phases, and I actually have a, an aggregate spreadsheet where I can see how much volume and I, am I giving them in each phase and, and looking at the mezzo, the mezzo and macro cycle as well as these, these micro cycles. And then the school that you track, total amount of reps and weight kills. Yeah, and then I just, I just recent, I just recently, because people were like, I really, I don't want to even go on a spreadsheet, I just want to be able to print it all. So now I've, I've actually now turned this also into like a, you get the full month, like in one, just in one spreadsheet, you print it out and it literally tells you, here's your warm up, here's your kettlebell, here's your conditioning, here's your GPP, and here's your cool down on mobility. And it's, they just print it out and everything's on, everything's on, on one page. And I, they, for the people that don't like computers and don't like, don't like tracking things in spreadsheets. And I'm like, okay, then write this down in your, in your training log, then you only have to update the spreadsheet one time, one time a month so that we can, so that we can review how are we doing overall. So it's, you know, that's awesome. I love it. I love spreadsheets. Yeah, not every person does, but I, I really love it. It's for me, make, make so much sense. You know, whenever sync in order. Yeah, yeah, I, I really think that it's a good way. I, I do too. And it was like, for me, that was a game chain working. Well, that was one of the things like working for you. That was like a game changer. I was like, oh my god, I can see like, okay, this, like I can see the math now. And like it, like you said, it helped me reduce my performance anxiety because I was like, okay, I know I can hit 140 reps with the 20s on jerk because I in my seven minute test set, I was able to sustain 14 RPMs all the way through it and be, and be comfortable. Like, I know I can, I know I can hit this number, you know, because I could look back at those, those objective training points and, and get that data. So, yeah, thank you for that. I just wanted to show you that because that's part of the evolution for me was also inspired by you on the, on the spreadsheets and the tracking. And everything. So it's a big part of what I do. So, yeah, it was good. We had, we had, we had like 47 registered competitors. We only had 12 in person, which is actually less than last year, but we want to have next year. I'm hoping, I'm hoping we can get it, you know, in the 60s or 70s, a total, total registered participants and then get, you know, half of those in person. So then we could have, you know, 30, 30, 40. I want to keep, keep building it up. But, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. And, yeah, things are, things are good. It's, it's a good time. I really, I love it. So. So, yeah, yeah, it's a, I've noticed it last, last Norkal also because, well, yeah, it's a, it's November now. So, yes, Norkal was always. And then Cal open was February. So, I mean, like, the first Cal after kind of the peak of pandemics, you know, was about 50, 50 in person online. Yeah. Yeah. And then I said, okay, 2022, I thought, okay, finally, we probably, you know, just get, you know, back to like more in person style, but it was kind of opposite. Yeah, it was surprising to you that it's like last Norkal was a decent event, but was even more video submissions. Then last year, so that's, that's interesting. I think people, I think people have gotten used to that, like, they've gotten comfortable with the like, oh, I can, I can still compete, but I don't have to travel. I don't have to spend the money. Like, it's cheaper. Like, I can do more competitions. Like, you know, but it's just, I don't know, I mean, maybe I'm probably old, Kermudgeon league, you know, kettlebell guy, but like, there's just nothing like an in-person comp. Like, there's just, there's nothing like that vibe in the room. And being there with people and seeing it, like, I don't know, there's just, you can't, you can't simulate that in your garage, right? Like, you can't, I don't know, you just, you can't, you can't get that same, that same experience. And I feel like that's what gets you the best performances is that that in-person environment. But, you know, for a lot of people, they maybe have never done an in-person competition. So, they don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah, this month of adrenaline, you know, when you go, I just, I just got back from Florida, the City of Ponce also was my first flight in last three years. Oh, nice. I used to be the guy who was on the plane in all the time. I met the pandemic hits and kind of, you know, just see the, you know, at home and just was, you know, doing a local stuff. Well, we did couple competitions, just a road trips, you know, by car. So we drove to Washington, to San Diego, but I wasn't using any public transportation, so that was interesting. But, well, if I ever think the same, and I, you know, I don't feel like, you know, I was too, like, you know, hit their own heart again. But once in a while, it's nice, you know, to have a bit of a journey, you know, just by somewhere and just meet, you know, all friends, you know, who you haven't seen for a while, just hang out and you know, slide to different, like, you know, different cities, like different weather. And just just all kind of, you know, just this flash of super like exciting car weekend, you know, competitions and then, you know, they're all local, like, favorite places are like beer places or local food. Yeah, just a little bit of, you know, just, yeah, absolutely. Cool emotion. So, yeah, well, I'm hoping, I'm hoping I get to head out to Berkeley sometime than not too distant future for work. So the next time I'm out there, it didn't work out last time because we had a whole conference that I had to go to. So I couldn't get to the gym on the days that you were there and the one day I could make it, you were, you were, that was your day off. So, but one of these, one of these trips out there, I'll, you know, I make a few trips to Silicon Valley a year. So one of these, one of these times I will make, I will make it work and we'll get together and sling some steel in person and go, go, I've never met John in person. I've never met Jason Dolby in person. So, you know, I got to, I got to meet the, the okay see crew in person and come, come sling some bells with you guys. Yeah, also excited about the end of the pandemics because I feel like, you know, so at least like once in life, I want to, you know, also compete in person and, you know, this events will happen in the world league. So, well, we're not making accurate plans, but I just have to see this on my list for sure. We'll see how it would be, would be honored, would be honored to have you and the further in advance, you can let me know the better because I would also like if we can get you booked for a, for a seminar so you can make some money while you're out here. Yeah, I would love to do that and get, you know, get, get a bunch of people, you know, doing, doing an in-person seminar with you because I know there would probably be a decent amount of interest and you could pay for your trip and make, make some money that way too, so. So, well, you know, first of all, yeah, I can just, you know, excited to step on your platform, but, you know, with travel wise, well, we'll see what kind of, you know, just kind of start, start off and study the first trip and then kind of also finishing this upgrading, upgrading my visa. So it seems like it should be done on April, well, like April to summer. So once it's done, yeah, it's been a while, I've been in Canada, well, it's time, so yeah, we'll keep in touch. Alright, sounds good. I appreciate it. Thank you, Dennis, we'll talk soon. Thank you for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. We'll be back with a new episode soon. Please be sure to leave a rating and review of the platform podcast in your app of choice, support our work by supporting our affiliates, and of course, if you have questions or you want help reaching your goals, reach out to me. Till next time, thanks for listening.