Audrey Carlson | LMFT & Addiction Counselor, Kettlebell athlete

Welcome into the platform podcast and happy new year 2020's been a hell of a ride I hope that 2021 is your best year yet In this episode we bring in Audrey Carlson who is an addiction counselor and a licensed marriage and family therapist to talk about some strategies to have a successful Dry Audrey or at least a reduction in alcohol consumption in Audrey if that's your preferred Approach I really wanted to have this episode come out before the turn of the year because I know a lot of people like to take on dry Audrey I myself is gonna be doing I'm gonna be doing it for reasons. I'll get into in the episode and if anybody cares to join me Feel free to reach out to me on social media and also please check out resources that are in the show notes You can contact Audrey's company Lyon Rock Recovery if you need professional help. They do 100% online support They're they also have links to free resources like support groups for alumni and Many other many other resources as bet and groups especially designed for first responders as well So if you need support, please check those resources out or feel free to reach out to me Happy new year. Let's make 2021 the best year yet. Thank you for listening And without further ado, let's get into this week's episode All right welcome into the platform podcast my guest today is Audrey Carlson She is a licensed marriage and family therapist as well as a Member of the Twin Cities kettlebell club Sport team so she has been with us for a little while lift and bells for a long time Which we're definitely gonna talk about But we're also gonna get into some strategies for how to successfully hopefully accomplish a dry Audrey And she has some expertise in that area, which is part of the reason I asked her to come on But first we're gonna talk about kettlebells. So Audrey, thanks for coming in Thanks for having me coach Yeah, of course of course So let's see how long has it been now? I'm terrible with with dates and stuff because like my wife literally just asked me last night What do we do for your for your birthday this year and I was like I don't know that was like 15 years ago Because everything feels everything feels so feels so long ago But I'm like I was actually trying to remember I was like how long has it been has it been over a year? Has it been like I can't even I can't even remember it feels like we've been training together for a long time But like time is so nebulous right now. I can't I can't even remember Yeah, well actually I remember it just because it was marked by the pandemic I remember it was a couple weeks after Shelter in place had started so here where I live in Travis County in Austin, Texas We had official shelter a place around like March 15th and so I actually was motivated by that of like shoot like I need to get healthy I had really slacked off on training and nutrition and I'm like hey, I'm stuck at home I had to go get my bells from the gym because my gym closed and I was very fortunate that the gym owner let me Take all my bells there and leave them there um, so I remember training by myself like re-igniting All my own and then thinking like I need help And so I reached out to you because Obviously we've been connected through Another kettlebell team when you were Yeah, we we lifted we lifted together on the as as members of the Texas kettlebell Audrey Which I again, I can't remember when that was precisely but a couple Yeah, I was like a couple of years a couple of years ago. Yeah, 2017 2018 working with Working with coach Vivio there and and coach Gorman uh at the Texas kettlebell Audrey. What up coaches. Hope y'all And it like just so the listeners know we had never met in person because you were training remotely In Chicago. Yeah. Yeah, the Texas kettlebell Audrey from Chicago Yeah, but I'd always liked your posts and you know I think we had actually practiced live together maybe a couple of times I don't I don't recall all these details, but anyway, so that's a little bit of history is you know I had been training often on by myself since leaving previous team and you know It was much more difficult, but I managed to do it for probably about nine months and then I met my current boyfriend And you know that goes like kind of oh yeah every time I've met a met a new boyfriend It's been you know, it's always turned my life in chaos Yeah, so it's a good relationship, but we were just spending a lot of time together I was neglecting that so that's not that's an awesome phase of our relationship right that that new like that's always an exciting and new thing So that's totally that's totally understandable But yeah, it's great that it's great that like you were able to get your bells and that you have somewhere there that you could work out Because Texas has been open mostly open, but now has had some lockdowns and you live in Austin which is a little bit More liberal so it's probably been there's been a little bit liberal in the political leanings sense Which means they were actually more open to restriction probably than other areas of Texas I would think but you can correct me if I'm correct me if I'm wrong But so that's that's awesome that you Were actually able to procure your bells and that you have somewhere to put them and now you now you've got them in the garage Which I know obviously so yeah, and I decided not to go back to the gym even once it opened and things loosened up I just wasn't comfortable and you know, honestly Training has been one of the few things other than my supportive relationship that's kept me saying just because this has been really hard I mean now we're in what month it feels like I know It's it's yeah, so but that was a conscious decision on my part because I just had the sense of I need to get grounded I need to get back to what helps me and exercise has always been that Yeah, I hear like that I that was like 100% my impetus for like transitioning from You know, I had been doing in-person classes here in Minnesota and some doing some online remote stuff with people like on an individual basis But once the gym's all closed I was like oh god, but what do I do like this is my this is my like respite every and I was like I guess I'm just gonna start doing zoom and we'll see who comes and I'm gonna start doing like Instagram live and we'll see who comes and you know Yeah, that's awesome. I didn't even expect to that you know, just thought you would program for me I would train on my own and you know, so that was that was awesome and It's yeah, it's been it's been great like it's like I love I love the I love the times that we have like it's it makes me so happy Every time every time I every time I turn on the turn on the zoom link I'm like oh god, I hope somebody comes because I'm just so you like you know, I got so used to training by myself for such a long time that I got used to that But then I realized like as as we got like you know, there are days we have eight nine people in the in the zoom class And that's fantastic and I just realized like how much how much Positive energy I derived from that like recharges my battery. It helps me get out of my head Which is which is always problematic so I love I love that but Um, let's go back into the way back machine a little bit tell us tell us a little bit more about your your athletic background growing up And then how you how you came into to kettlebells and like how did you stumble into kettlebell training But let's start with what's your athletic background? You know back in high school and yeah So yeah, I was always really active as a little kid and did group sports and baseball and different things like that And then I was a competitive swimmer for most of my life What distances did you do? So I did a 200 freestyle and 500 freestyle and then 200 I am So I'm five two. I could not compete in the sprints with all the tall girls and women so my coach I think it was probably sophomore year in high school was like you should do distance And so that that was really great because it's just the competition was less And I and I had a chance because you know I was competing with some some just like minded people You know similar body types. So that was really my athletic. I loved swimming. I actually um Used to do ballet and piano growing up But I put those aside because I really wanted to focus on swimming so Did that didn't compete in college? Um, I went to UCSC and Santa Cruz go banana slugs didn't end up competing You know train the best mascots of all time right Um, I've actually seen many of them. They're actually there in the forest. It's pretty cool. But um Yeah, so ended up not competing in college just because of school Situation just with the classes. I decided to focus on the education grow up in Texas and went to college in California Or did you grow up in California? Okay, your Texas born and bred get went to well I was actually born in Iceland and then been in Austin since I was two How did I not know this? Sorry My parents were there My mom was finishing her dissertation my dad was teaching so that that's that but my mom was born and bred in west Texas and went to UT And so I ended up moving back and so I consider myself a Texan although Native Texans would probably dispute Since I wasn't actually a whole like person at like a whole complex that's built around an identity complex It's built around being from Texas and who's native and who's not and that's true Whether it's whether it's your own country or not and I kind of feel like you need a passport to go to Texas Because it is like it is its own kind of culture there. It's it's it's a little different. Yeah It's very in a good way in a good way. I love it. Yeah Well, I moved to Santa Cruz, California when I was 18 and I ended up staying there for almost 25 years not intentionally And went back to school while I was there to get my masters and how do you accidentally live somewhere for time? Well, I meant to move back. I just kept meaning to move back And I think just the laziness of moving combined with then, you know, building Sport and then the career and then yeah, you know, but finally I was like okay I really want to do it because it was always a pull to be back here And I would come, you know, a couple times year visit my mom friends and so yeah I'm really happy I moved back It's been four years now that I've been back in Austin. Yeah, and so when when did you stumble into kettlebells? So I actually stumbled into kettlebells Again accidentally. I had been exposed to like hardstyle in gyms just a little bit like you know That's typically what's in gyms and there were some classes here and there um, but what happened was I lost my husband my husband died from a heroin overdose in 2013 we've been married eight months um, and you know Went through appropriate depression related to grieving for quite some time and then Realized that you know again exercise fitness for competition has always been what's kept me grounded and and just really Been in a passion. So it's like I need to find something. I need to get back into it. I need to you know I need help like I just always saw as a community in a way to get help And so I just started looking for gyms and found a membership gym called iron republic Um run by Seth Munsey. It's now closed But it's it was in the Monterey Peninsula area and so um Yeah, I joined and learned hardstyle as well as DVRT sandbag training loved it Um, it was so great. It was a community. It was really what I needed it. It really saved me I mean it really pulled me out of that and you know gave me the support and the routine and the structure and Obviously, you know all the physical benefits exercise and all that um, so that was really exciting. So then You know, that was a really hard factor to leave because it was such a community and when I moved was gonna move back to Austin That was actually what I started researching before I started looking for a job Where I get into kettlebells And I couldn't find a he even tried to network to see, you know, were there any um You know kettlebell gyms or you gotta have your priorities like I need to work out. Then I need to pay them Oh, yeah, so I maybe need somewhere to live and sleep Yeah, I ended up fighting Texas kettlebell had no idea what sports style was Never had heard of it never seen it And so this is you know spring of 2016. I'm preparing to move and so I'm out here visiting and I go to look at the gym and you know talk to Carlson and talk to Jess and I didn't really understand, you know, this different. I was just like oh these are these are kettlebells. They look different But you know and he explained a little bit of the difference. So of course, I didn't understand and so in moving back And then I was like oh, you know, I'm just doing this for fitness like I'm not gonna compete, you know Like four months later. I was like um actually maybe I'll compete And then the rest is just like stick a fork at me. Yeah, that's where you get the the I'm I'm I'm just gonna do this But I'm not gonna compete and that's where all the coaches go. Okay. Yes, sure Yeah, that's fine. Okay, that's fine We all know like everybody knows like if you're around you're around enough you're around the sport enough and you're around people that are doing the sport enough like eventually Eventually, well, you know, I'm doing all these practices. I kind of may as well like give it a try Usually usually how it goes and then then you're hooked. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and it was so awesome and again the community of it and then you know going to my first competition Which was here in Austin Texas open. Yeah, that was my first and then deck the bells was my second and so So 2017 2016. Let's see it was I think it must have been 2017 Open Is in the summer Or I think September 2017 and then I did deck the bells shortly their after in December and then I did California open the following year February 2018 so yeah, I mean it this is just the hardest sport I've ever done Really harder than swimming Like I'm I'm serious because to me swimming is like like it's ridiculous like swimming is so hard to spend like Well, the sprints are the sprints are super hard for their for their own reasons But like distant distance swimming to me like like just mentally seems impossible like yeah when people are like Oh, yeah, I did a 5,000 meter open water swim. I'm like how did you not die? I'm like buoyancy is not great for me like I'm a I'm a very muscular large man You know, but like so swimming requires a decent amount of effort But I'm also not like an elegant swimmer by any stretch So like to me it's just in my head like swimming seems every bit as hard as kettlebell But maybe it's just cuz I haven't I haven't ever really been trained in it But yeah, maybe it's cuz I surprise to hear that yeah, maybe it's cuz I started when I was so teeny You know like I was practically swimming before I was walking my dad taught me how to swim is always Just love the water still do and so you know Maybe if I had started sport earlier it wouldn't seem as hard Oh, yeah, I mean sports hard. I mean it's it is the hardest thing I've ever done too But just in my head like I that's good. We said you're a football player. I never are competitive swimmers Oh, that's like that's just like are you willing to crash into other humans at first? Like yeah, sure, that sounds fun Yeah Okay, that's so that makes a lot of sense though like the Got the you got the competitive nature and grain didn't you from a from a very young age you had your thing that you did and then you you needed it like I mean You know, I didn't I didn't know your husband died in an overdose. I knew you lost I knew you lost your your husband in 2013, but I didn't know it was from an overdose. So, you know, obviously I'm Sorry to hear that you went through that and that adds kind of another piece to the puzzle of why you've chosen the The professional career path that you've that you've chosen. So Let's talk talk a little bit about that. I mean When did you when did you decide you wanted to be a therapist and Yeah, when did you go down down that that route? Well, let's see. I went back to school. So I got my undergrad, you know, it's 18 I got my undergrad in psychology. Honestly, it was like the deadline my junior year to declare a major I went to UCSC so it like what Yeah, so I mean in the back of them we didn't have grades, you know, we had narrative evaluations and I just you know, I just never was one of those people that had this Absolute of like I know what I want to do like I was always interested in people's stories And after call it after undergrad I worked for enterprise run a car People would get in the car because you go and you pick them up and take them back to the store to get their car And they would just like tell me their life story. I always found a very interesting And so that was actually my therapist Who encouraged me to go back to school to become a therapist So I did pretty much weekly therapy for about five years between Started around 2004 I just sort of had my midlife crisis early, I guess and I just felt like I didn't really know where my life was going what I was doing Um, I think I had always just been really fortunate to sort of get by and Be somewhat successful in whatever I did like, you know, not like top of the You know, not cream in the crop, but like I don't know I just felt like the bell curve the always above the mean on the bell curve. Right. So I just felt like okay This like I could envision myself at that time. I think I was like 3031 And I can envision myself like in my mid 40s miserable just going nowhere like and I just felt like okay I need to do something so Therapy was a great experience for me with her And so she encouraged me to go back to school So anyway, so I graduated with my master's in 2008, I guess Was working in the field actually when I met my husband wasn't working in substance use field specifically I'd done a little bit but um, I was in the process actually of getting licensed because to be an LMFT in California Anyway, you need 3000 hours and I was working full-time in an unrelated field while I went back to school And so it was taking 3,000 hours. I was just trying to do the math. It was like two and a half years Yeah, if you're doing it straight like full-time, it takes about two and a half years But I was working full-time Not in the mental health field and so it's taking me forever So long story short, I finally had to just Take the leap of faith take the pay cut like do it full-time and Stumbled into a job in an emergency department working for the county which I had never even been an emergency department So I worked for the crisis team loved it like just absolutely loved it That was just a great experience. Yeah, it's really intense and I ended up doing inpatient psych Hosses negotiation team crisis team and then when I moved back to Texas Also worked in a psych unit and then finally had to transition because my adrenal glands Just couldn't do anymore like I just made it a break. I mean, I'm 47 now. So You know working about eight years in the psychiatric emergency services. That was pretty much all I could do Pat's off to people who do it lifelong any kind of first responder is just it's really intense Yeah, it's that it's interesting That's actually kind of how my how my wife got get into the mental health field as well like she was She was in she was in mental health in Chicago when we lived in Chicago and she was she was in You know a mental health mental health team and then Of course the hospital network that she worked for shut down all of their mental health care facilities and They gave her the choice of like well you can take a severance Or you can take this job working in the emergency department at Northwestern Northwestern Memorial Hospital which is downtown Chicago one of the biggest emergency departments in the country Wow and and she was like I guess I'll do that So she went from being you know working as a mental health provider to now she was in the emergency room as it as a technician But they wanted people with mental health training in the emergency department since they knew like we just closed our all our mental health facilities We're gonna see a lot more mental health patients in the ED So we're going to need people with that with that training and like she started working over nights in the in the emergency department in one of the biggest hospitals in the country like You know, and it was it was great. It was a crazy period of years And now she's been in an emergency department for I mean since then and I that's been Over 10 years. She's gonna be a nurse, right? She's not To be a nurse. Yeah. Yeah, she's got one she's got one one term one term left before she can sit for the NCLEX and then she'll be Then she'll you know, let's you know fingers crossed. I'm sure she'll pass. She's very very smart and she works really really hard So I'm sure she'll pass but Yeah, so one more one more term and then she'll be and then she'll be a nurse and she's like, yeah, I won't like maybe do the I see you I'm like oh, so we're just gonna take it easy But you know, she's got that same kind of thing we're like the intensity of it and the stakes of it and the pace of it and all of that like I think she's a she's really really good at that because she Has the the wonderful capacity of like she's super calm and an emergency whereas I'm like oh my god You know like my kid you know somebody's bleeding somebody's crying and she's just like okay What's what's happening? Let's assess like she has that really incredible capacity of Being able to just stay calm. So she's she's great at that but she also I think Thrives on the in the intensity of it and the stakes of it and the pace of it. So yeah, my I'm I'm with you like hats off to anybody that can Can do it period yet alone do it for an extended period of time or for the entire duration of their career because I know I couldn't handle it, but we all know I'm not that tough It's a it's a fun. It's an interesting thing and I guess that's what they some people consider like a fun and fulfilling career So I don't know if I can I don't know if I can handle it, but So you are now a therapist and you work in the addiction field when did when did the When did the transition to the addiction field happen? Yeah, so when I moved back to Texas I worked briefly for a mobile crisis team then took a position as a director of admissions for a psych hospital and You know we did that for about a year and a half and decided okay management was a really good experience. I learned a lot But it's just not for me Herding cats is just It is is is a lot It's a thankless job So hats off to managers out there And I've had a lot of really good ones and a lot of really bad ones and so I feel like you know It was nice to be able to apply that and just learn more about myself and you know Just recognize where I have a skill and it's it's not so much as a manager So I decided you know what? I'm gonna just like slow things down go back and be a therapist and I got an opportunity to work for Lionrock recovery and they've been a hundred percent online video Treatment since they opened in 2010 2009 2010 Um, and so yeah exactly and so working from home You know was learning curve, but just decided you I'm gonna do this. It's intensive outpatient treatment And so it's basically group counseling and individual counseling and I'm an individual counselor And so yeah, I really I really love it the program. They have just great curriculum really good structure It's just it's been fabulous And then I also work for another healthcare company doing sort of more traditional therapy couples counseling individual counseling Not specific to substance use and so um, so I have two jobs And then I see clients kind of on my own through a platform called sondermined and that's um You know, just a platform that matches clients with their facility Two point five jobs. Yeah, so I'm still that emergency room kind of intensity, I guess But just sprinkled in a little bit. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and that's a struggle that I have is balancing things and you and I have talked about that You know, it's like I'm very all-or-nothing Consistency can be difficult for me and You know like I'll like work too much or I play too much or you know, I'll lie on the couch too much It's kind of like that lights that light switch personality right which I think And you you're you're more the expert than I am in this You know, I have my lived experience living in my own body You know, and I am very much that kind of light switch personality and I also have an addictive personality You know, and I think those two kind of go hand in hand is there's kind of that all-or-nothing like too much is never enough That's kind of I think I think that tends towards the addictive side of of the personality profile But I mean you can correct me if I'm wrong that's that's been my That's been my lived experience as well as what I know what I know of for my for my you know, psychology degree is that that that There tends to be an addictive personality type And we can talk about reward cast reward cascade deficiencies in the brain I just I also know that there tends to be just a certain personality type is kind of that that strong What we would call type a personality very all-or-nothing I call it the light switch personality because it's like either go or nothing Like that is kind of the binary that I that I use is that accurate? Is that is that your experience as well? Yeah, definitely I think that you know in working with addicts and struggling with my own addictions I see that there's very much that black or white kind of thinking and what we call them in a health field as cognitive distortions is just you know Having a thought oh my thought must be correct or my feeling must be factual and it's typically you know a very concrete thought Black and white and so I always try to look for gray. That's what I you know try to encourage clients Look for the gray like challenge your brain to ask questions to find those shades of gray Um, and it's hard because now because I just realized that that the logo that I that I had designed is all black and white And I specifically told him I wanted you a black and white look Like that's all my tattoos are black and white like my looks black and white So I just you know as you said that I got the logo up behind me and I was like oh god I didn't even realize I did everything in black and white I mean, I knew that I did that but I didn't correlate the two so sorry that's Yeah, that's funny. Well the other commonality that I noticed and that I learned through my own therapy is Difficulty tolerating emotions. So whether it's one's own emotions or other people's and so I've had To really work on that over my lifetime and you can talk to my mom like I was that kid that through the tantrum in the store I was the kid that was like zero to 60 um You know, she says I was also really kind of hyper focused on other people's emotions and asking like why is a person sad? What's what's that first you know, and so I think that's something that you know comes with maturity But also just doing a lot of work to slow that down And recognize the feeling and that's where exercise and competition has helped me so much is because you have to Focus on different aspects, and you have to be really in tune with your body um, and I think a lot of people can describe sort of you know Flying into a rage right like that that phrase itself is like just you see red and all of a sudden You know, there's catastrophe or whatever and so I think that goes along with you know and you know Listen, I'm not a neurologist or a psychiatrist So I don't know exactly what's going on in the brain But they they have done research brain scans and kind of genetic components And you know, there is something that's going on with those areas of the brain and related to addiction and You know related to to emotional Tolerance yeah, I'm also not a neurobiologist or neurologist The research that I've that I've read You know, and I mentioned the reward cascade deficiency is Like some people might like have a piece of chocolate cake and be like, oh, this is really good and They get a they get a dose of dopamine and it hits their brain and they're like, oh, this is fantastic It makes them happy it stays there for a while and then they're like, okay, you know I don't need anymore Whereas an addict Might have less dopamine be produced or they might have That it might get the reuptake might happen more rapidly They're not quite sure of the functionality of it, but it's basically like they don't get the oh that's enough Because the dopamine doesn't stay as long for them or the serotonin whatever, you know Whatever neurotransmitter that's giving them the happy release They don't get nearly as as long of a hit from it or as much of a hit from it and then it like goes away So then they want more and so then that's where the like they think From my from my reading of the research I think that's where that might be some of the biological component of the addictive personality type where it's like Okay, they just don't from a brain chemistry standpoint don't get the same Satiety will call it, you know from you know the same pleasure satiety that that normal I know normal brains, you know Healthy healthy functioning non-addictive brains Right. Well, you thought you articulated it perfectly. Yeah, that's Definitely component and then of course there's trauma. So I had never worked Well, I hate black and white always are never but rarely have I seen a client who has either a severe chronic mental illness Because I used to work with you know schizophrenia Mm-hmm bipolar major depression with psychotic features, you know people who have severe mental illness or a substance a severe substance You sort of who didn't have some type of trauma and of course, you know, everybody experiences what some might see as a traumatic event differently So whether it's sexual abuse, physical abuse, natural disaster, you know neglect, you know, whatever it is But that is definitely a common thread So there's also theories about trauma and what that does to the brain, right? And so is it the trauma that changed the brain the then led to addiction or mental illness or you know, which came first who knows And so that's definitely component. I'm very fortunate that I don't have any trauma that I can recall I mean, of course according to certain assessments, you know, being a child of divorce is is a tick mark on the trauma side regardless You know, there's just there's different factors. It's called ACE and so that's one of them But other than that, I mean, I I don't have any significant trauma or what one would consider Trauma as far as textbook and so you know, who knows there's there's text there's textbook trauma But then there's also there's also perceived trauma too like and like it's really it's really hard to know like What and there's individual resilience factors, right? Like what what you or I may consider trauma or what may have been traumatic for us as a child May not have been traumatic, you know, traumatic for for someone else too, you know, there's there's a lot of and this is part of the reason I find the field of psychology So fascinating is because because it is a you know quote unquote soft science as my as my friends with PhDs in mathematics and And or you know other more firm disciplines Like to tell me that that psychology is a soft science But that's kind of what I like about it is is the areas of gray and the areas of unknown and there and there is that Audrey and nurture and then there's you know genetics and epigenetics and you know all of those things and they're like trying to solve the the ultimate puzzle which is like How does the brain work and why does it work the way it works and you know, it's such a fascinating You know bio machine that it's We don't I don't know when we'll ever get to a point where we feel like we have a solid understanding But it seems like we're always we're always learning something new about how it how it functions But there's so many there's so many variables to try and test and and so many factors to get into so I want to give a little background on on why I why I asked Audrey to come in and and you know It's something that but she and I have talked a little bit about you know I think it's important for people to understand that like personally. I'm going to do dry Audrey because It's a it's an important thing For me as I've gone through the pandemic I'm sure this is not an experience that I'm alone in As I've gone through the pandemic and it's and it's worn on I have found it harder and harder to You know not have nebulous time and to not feel the the desire or urge to Unwind with with a drink or you know to To Unwind with multiple drinks regardless of the day of the week too sometimes because You know, you might look at your calendar for for a day and be like oh, well, I don't have anything I don't have anything until 10 a.m. Tomorrow So I have a very flexible schedule and I might work until I might work until one o'clock in the morning and you know it It all kinds of gets a little It gets a little bit less structured and a little less clear and for me I know that as that structure has gone away It's been easier and easier for me to slip into what I would consider an unhealthy consumption pattern of alcohol Not necessarily like drinking to Drunkenness or drinking to excess per se but when you add up you know two or three drinks on night over the course of an entire week That becomes very much an unhealthy consumption pattern And then you can also have you know the night's where it's like oh it's Saturday and I definitely don't have to work tomorrow So you can have you know eight or nine drinks and then tolerance builds up and you know et cetera et cetera et cetera So for me with my background I did have some issues in my past particularly in college when I hurt my back I got addicted to viking and And valium because it was prescribed to me and then I I realized pretty quickly when I could no longer play football That it was fun to take those and helped numb both the emotional and physical pain of my of my back injury And then you know down the road You know alcohol abuse was was fairly common when you played rugby and when you're in a fraternity and all of those things And so you kind of learn some of those social behaviors that as you transition into your 20s are still socially acceptable But then as you transition into your 30s they're not so acceptable and they're definitely not they're definitely not healthy And then when you become a father they're definitely not healthy and definitely not the type of thing that you want to be doing So for me personally I've decided that you know I want to do dry Audrey which is something I've done before and I think it's a good thing and from a Health perspective I can tell you you know anybody that's listening that it is good even if you're just a casual drinker Even if you don't have any of the issues that I'm articulating you know that I've struggled with in in my life It is still just from a health perspective a good idea to give your body a break to give your liver a break a lot of really really important functions happen in the liver You know metabolic function conversion of t3 or t4 to t3 You know all sorts of all sorts of biological processes The liver is very very important sleep hormone production all of those things get better if you don't drink So giving yourself even just one month off is a very very good thing, but it can also help you Identify triggers and other things like that So With that said I'm going to shut up and let Audrey Talk a little bit about some of the strategies That we think are going to be productive for a dry Audrey and What do you what do you recommend for someone? Hey, we'll start with someone like me because it's about me. Let's let's be It's your podcast So for someone like me with a history of some problematic behaviors But not necessarily ever full blown alcoholism or things like that not that and we've talked about this before there is alcoholism in my family I don't feel like I've ever gone in down to that level of You know destructive behavior, but there's definitely been problematic and abusive behavior in my past So what would you recommend for someone like me and then we can pivot to someone well again, I'll say air quotes more normal Or with a more healthy, you know, a more healthy perspective towards towards alcohol, but that still would like to do a dry Audrey So like I got strategies for people with addictive or abusive types of backgrounds and then maybe strategies for people that don't have any Yeah, well, I mean, I would say it's like, you know with anything that you're trying to quit or take a break from don't have it in the house, right? And you know, we're really fortunate So you've got a collection of bourbons in your you know asking for a friend, but just say you've got like 10 and a half drunk bottles of Of fairly fairly expensive bourbons. What do you think? Yeah, that's a good point are people who have extensive wine collections or wine sellers and you know So keeping it somewhere out of sight so if possible like if you normally have your collection displayed You know, where you pass by it often You know, can you move it somewhere temporarily or you know putting a visual stop So putting a sign don't drink all of those bottles before Audrey 1st exactly. Yeah, that would be counterproductive so But yeah, so so I think that's the thing about it is right in and you know, you know, being a coach and you know, Trisha coach and fitness coach that you have to have strategies because you can't rely on motivation, will powers not a thing like they've done plenty of studies that it's like 10 minutes in the morning and then we're all done right Yeah, I'm paraphrasing of course, but yeah, but that's I mean, that's the cliff. No, it's I mean essentially motivation is very flea like very flea Yeah, and so many of your self up for success and environmentally I think is what you're saying like set up your environment for success first and foremost by removing cues and temptation Right exactly and then you know seeking support if you can tell people you know, even if you live alone If you have a couple people that you can talk to about it and have that accountability and be like hey, you know, I'm doing You know, a dry Audrey, do you want to do it with me even if they don't could I call you if I'm having a craving You know, and just really seek that support because you know, not just because I'm a mental health professional But just I know in my own life and and just the way that we work of social animals like we can't function Totally alone And especially when it comes to the things like that. I mean, we're just far more successful Because made that pretty clear right we need we need the social interaction I think that's part of the reason some of us are struggling so much is because We don't have that social interaction that face-to-face nearly as much so And even those of us that are maybe more introverted and need that downtime to refuel You know, we still need connection if it's one thing I learned through my own work and therapy and you know tackling my own addictions is the connection is really what I was seeking I think and so, you know, you mentioned that You know kind of as we get older I mean for me it was like I my body couldn't keep doing the things it was doing Oh, yeah, I didn't get into that. Yeah, I definitely like a whole other level right you go back and try and drink with the collar You know the old boys go back and try and drink with the young ruggers and it's uh yeah Yeah, you can you can keep up, but they're they're up, you know running running a mile the next day and we're like, you know Dragon our old bones out of bed at 11 o'clock with right our aspirin and like let's go get breakfast because we're dying Right. Yeah, so that's a side note, but I think just seeking support having visual AIDS and so as silly as it sounds, you know putting a sign On the liquor cabinet or on the you know wine cellar or whatever Just remind to remind yourself of like what is your goal, you know, and like making it a supportive positive You know not to get too woo woo, but positive affirmations right having some kind of mantra Again, it's that strategy so that when you Don't feel strong enough or you're feeling tempted or you're not motivated to keep on the track of whatever the goal is You have that reminder and so there's a lot of plans that I work with unclients to create So whether if they have chronic suicidal thoughts if they have you know cravings for a substance Or behavior that they want to try to change is making a list of what's going to help them So that they don't have to think of it in that moment because the brain right it shuts down certain Abshack thinking when we're in a crisis or when we're feeling depressed or emotional right you you literally can't access The parts of the brain that are needed and so why make it hard on yourself like right like You just write out the list you know write out why you're doing it write out what your strategies are so that when you're feeling You know unmotivated you can look at okay, wait, I need to do this and next I need to do this so You know creating that list of what's gonna help you know go for a walk listen to a song call a friend You know whatever it is that works for you and sometimes this is Experimentation trial and error and some things may work on some days that don't work as well On on other days right and that's why you want to have plenty of tools in the toolbox And it's like you know when you're on the platform lifting some days are gonna suck right you're not gonna feel in tune with things You're gonna the bells go really heavy Your breath is all over the place, you know like just all the millions of things that are off Um, but it's like if you just stick to the plan and you just show up like over time It'll work out. So that would be the number one thing I would say is seek support have some visual cues Make a list of why you're gonna do it, you know Why do you want to do a dry Audrey and then what are you gonna do to replace that behavior because we can't just take away a behavior And then not have anything to replace it and ideally you want to replace it with something healthy and beneficial You know, that's important because it can be very easy to be like I'm gonna give up drinking but man gambling is fun Crossed action thinking being yeah, we definitely don't want to replace it with with something like that So what are some what are some healthy coping behaviors that you've seen work well for people and I know you said like Try different ones like just like we try different strategies on the platform to see what what works for you and and Your brain for for keeping yourself calm and doing well. What are some strategies that you think people can try some different strategies They can try yeah, like so pick up a hobby that could be another thing to list of like are there things that you've been wanting to try that you Haven't because you didn't feel like you had the time or whatever, you know You know reading Like just something that's like tangible that you can do during that time so that the time you would normally be drinking It's like you're gonna have that environmental cue right like oh, it's five o'clock or you know Pre-pandemic with a commute although some people you know still have a commute Maybe you drive past that certain liquor store or certain friends house or bar or whatever So you have those environmental cues and so in those cases it's like take a different route You know replace the regular driving route with a new driving route So whatever your environmental cues are set up a strategy that okay, no Instead of drinking at that time, I'm gonna do the following and you just do it consistently To build that habit so and do you recommend that people Like because for me like I've done this before and we've talked about you know One of the strategies that that you talked me about earlier when we were talking is like listing your triggers and beginning to identify your triggers So is that something that you recommend that that people especially if it's their first time doing it that they That they like is that something they should write down? Yeah, definitely because because maybe you're not even sure right because that's the thing is sometimes It's just so automatic right it's created this habit loop in the brain That you're not even aware and that's why the dry Audrey can be just a really interesting Experiment just to learn more about yourself. Oh, I didn't even realize that that was a trigger So maybe it's talking to a certain person time of day You know seeing something a lot of times what the craving is is its tension in the body And so the reward system is okay, relieve the tension in the body by having a drink right or doing whatever it is You know and and the triggers the triggers can be both environmental physical or emotional right and that's one thing I learned was like You know, we talked like foot like watching football on Sundays for me is a big trigger because for the longest time like watching football With friends or whatever like having beers was just part of that routine right right but also like Loneliness isolation boredom like all of the same things that can be triggers for emotional eaters are a lot of times you know Our triggers for people that drink as well so like it can be it can be both physical cues as well as as environmental cues are environmental triggers Emotional triggers right there's it doesn't have to be a physical thing right exactly. There's external and internal Yeah, they're absolutely better said Yeah, and so in the case of like the football right is like okay, you can experiment with planning ahead to have some kind of mocktail or you know Pleasant drink and so you know people in the recovery world recommend against non-alcoholic just because it tastes So it's you know pretty much the same. Yeah, and they can actually just fuel the craving But you know, that's an individual choice and of course if somebody isn't like sparkling water But because you get the you get the fizzy you get some It's not but it's not but it's not beer right right like I so I I might have like, you know Full like six cases of sparkling sparkling water in my fridge, but you know, that's better than six different kinds of IPA Exactly endless calories, you know, so it can also be conducive to just being healthy in Audrey and so So having replacements like that and so for some people they might find okay watching the football games not worth it Like it's too it's too much it triggers too much But over time that often changes and that's why like the first of doing anything When you're changing a habit or harder right and then it's just that consistency And then you can change your habit loop and then it's not as hard like oh And how do you how do you deal with and again that we're getting back to the binary right black and white And this is something I struggle with is like how do you deal with if you fail right and I say fail again in quotes right But like what if you fall off right yeah you you You were doing great you did a full two weeks and then oh man, I you know, I fucked up and I had right I had I had a couple of beers. Well dry Audrey's fucked now right yeah again black and white thinking right all or nothing I would say okay do an autopsy do an autopsy on that situation like Look at each piece like what was going on that day, you know Were you not taking care of yourself that day? Were you more stressed were you thirsty? You know, were there some warning signs they didn't pay attention to what were they? Maybe you didn't realize they were warning signs and and now you do you know and so learning from that because Yeah, I mean I can beat myself up with the best of them But in the end you have to ask yourself how is this productive yeah and I guess uh follow up question is Am I setting myself up or do we set ourselves up for failure by calling it dry Audrey and and making it like I'm gonna go the entire month without a drink like is that even a good strategy or should it be for some people should it be like A reduction strategy and is that it maybe a difference between somebody who just needs to stay Like completely avoid versus somebody who just needs to reduce like I don't know. Yeah. That's a great question And I think you know like you say it depends right and so my favorite my favorite answer to every question Yeah, it's like what is the goal like have you never done a 30-day You know absence from alcohol and you just want to see okay? Can I do this and and if it's difficult at what point is it difficult on why and then you can learn from it And it's like you know many people might think like oh well, I don't have a problem Until then they try to do something differently and it's like harder right than expected and so then you can just learn from it And so I mean, I think harm reduction is fabulous. I don't think that complete abstinence is Necessary or beneficial for everyone. I mean when you're talking about heroin That's a little bit different Because I don't know the drug the drug of choice is definitely is definitely important for you know We're talking about abstinence from alcohol here. Just so we're very very clear like uh if if if meth is the problem I definitely recommend Zero really is is the right amount of meth. Yeah, so yes substance definitely definitely matters But then again, you know, it goes back to look what is the person's goal and if they're not wanting to completely abstain from heroin Then let's let's do a harm reduction, you know, let's get clean needles. Let's get you know less is good You know, so it just depends but with alcohol You know, it's of course more socially acceptable But it still is a toxin right and they're just feeding that I've heard you talk about it another podcast And you know a lot more of the science behind it than I do But the the point is just looking at okay. How is it enhancing your life? And that's the thing. I mean, I haven't had an alcohol for I don't know since like 16 years now Okay, do I think I would it would thank you, but do I don't know would it be a problem if I started drinking again? Maybe maybe not However, I don't see that it would enhance my life Right, and so because I know that I do have addictive traits It just doesn't seem worth it to me However, there are plenty of people who maybe we're drinking in a problematic way who then go to some harm reduction And are able to achieve moderation and it's great and then they can still you know have a glass of wine that they want to or you know drink some of your Scotch collection or you know Well, but bourbon sorry, okay I like Scotch too. That's see that's part of my problem is like I was a bartender and I worked at a wine bar in in college and like I am a professionally trained bartender so I know all of the spirits well. I also love beer. I love I love wine Like I and I do appreciate it and it does enhance it does enhance my experience with certain foods and things like that and I have been successful with moderation in the past but I also I've also seen that He'd be a it can be a slippery slope because of my addictive personality type and depending on how mindful I am of the stressors in my life And like let's be honest. This is this is like a brave new world for a lot of it like this is the first global pandemic I've ever lived through. How about you? Right? You know, so it's a it's definitely a kind of a different kind of a different thing, but as I've been You know, as I've been you know, being more retrospective and introspective towards the end of the year as I tend to do like looking back And like I'm like yeah, probably a good idea to To look at this because it's you know, it is especially as I look at what do I want to accomplish in 2021, you know You start looking at well, how does this how does it support that goal does this like the does it actually enhance my life in in a way That's making meaningful progress in the directions that I want to go right is the enjoyment I derive from it worth the trade You know, and then is it more problematic than it is helpful right those types of Yeah, well, but in to answer your question about you know more specifically about if you quote quote fail right like let's say the you want to do 30 days of You know alcohol and then at day 14, you know, you have a drink looking at okay You know, like I said what was going on during that day? What can you learn from it to apply to the next day? And then also looking at how did you feel afterwards and that way the next time you have a craving or you feel the urge to have a drink You think about okay, but we'll remember last time So I felt and that's where it could be helpful to write those things down and to keep a drinking log And so even for people who aren't going for abstinence who want to do you know moderation It's like write down your drinking plan for the week and then write down your actual and so You know kind of getting off topic talking about moderation But if you you know say you're going to drink three times this next week you decide when And then you're not allowed to change that decision unless it's 24 hours or more ahead of time So let's say you plan to drink Monday Wednesday Friday, but then on Monday You get an invitation for a birthday gathering a Zoom gathering on Saturday and you want to drink Well, then you can change it because it's at least 24 hours at advance And so that can help you identify any sort of impulsive decision making Where it's like in the moment you're like ah Screw it. I'm sure I deserve it. Yeah. I'm going to have a drink It's like Wawa wasn't part of the plan day and so and then similar approach that we take to emotional eating and Staying on plan and like having a plan for cheat meals like or a holidays like you talk about. Yeah Absolutely. Okay, so I'm I'm with that I that completely tracks for me There's no delicate way to put this how do you how does somebody assess whether they need you know Because we talked about support and you were talking about social support But how does somebody assess whether or not they need professional support like how how like what are the what are the cues that somebody should be like I need to seek professional help for this process right like yeah What are some of the cues for that right well if you're going like off of the standard diagnostic manual as far as like what is an alcohol use disorder Right because that's what the the current diagnoses is alcohol use disorder mild moderate or severe And so there's you know a list of criteria And you have to meet a certain amount of the criteria to qualify for a mild moderate or severe And so I would just encourage people don't look at like what you think of is the stereotypical addict or alcoholic right It's not about like are you getting DUIs left and right? I mean if you are that's a concern right But it's basically like are you drinking in spite of Negative consequences like knowing that there's negative consequences like when I drink I get in fights or when I drink I get an argument when I drink it causes problems with my finances with my relationships with my health And yet I'm doing it anyways right and so even just three or four of the I think nine criteria don't quote me Me at all professionals I'm not looking at the manual but you know That can be a mild Use disorder and that's where I would probably recommend moderation do you have a link for that by chance that we can put in the show notes Could you share that I can share that yeah, it's out of DSM five. So yeah, I'll absolutely also not you And then you know, so looking at you know, do you have a mental health or a physical health just diagnoses that is Exit that alcohol exacerbates that so obviously it's a depressant So if you're somebody who's depressed and being treated for depression or even not treated being treated for depression You got to really ask yourself like why are you Using a substance that is increasing depression a lot of anxiety Anxiety rebound you just read my mind. Yeah, a lot of times people see the payoff for drinking as it helps with anxiety Because you know anxiety how we experience that in the body is sort of an elevated state right talk of cardiac like increased heart rate tension in the body and so Alcohol can smooth those edges seemingly but it absolutely has that rubber band effect where you're tolerance to For anxiety Changes and so your threshold changes and so it actually can make your anxiety worse and the same with sleep seems like it promotes sleep Right, but I think anything was done a fair amount of drinking not a good sleep aid Yeah, you might fall asleep initially or pass out which isn't actually falling asleep It's passing out but and then there's a rebound where you wake up two or three in the morning It's the difference between being sedated versus going to sleep like they sedate you to do surgery They don't you don't go to sleep like they sedate you There's a there's a very very big difference. It is not restorative to be sedated It is the opposite of that it is something your body needs to recover from so Yeah, so I would just look at you know are you having difficulty meeting your obligations whether it's related to personal You know school Occupational, you know if you're having trouble Following through or meeting those obligations at the level that you feel like you should or want to then That's another indicator that you know, maybe it is causing a problem Maybe it is an issue Yeah, and I only like I know I the question I asked was was about how do you know if you have a problem And I like and I think you answered it very cleanly I think part of the reason I'm always coming back to it is because it is because Even though it's not necessarily problematic for me at a lot of times in my life it is non Optimal it's suboptimal right and like If you're looking to thrive and you're looking to like you're looking to be an exceptional performer You're looking to you know do a lot of things, you know, which is kind of my drive in life right like I always try to be at the end of the bell curve You know, I I strive to be a high performer Yeah, I don't know how you do everything Alcohol consumption is not is not gonna be isn't gonna be conducive to that right yeah, you know You're looking to recover optimally from your workouts. You're looking to perform optimally your job. You're looking to be The best, you know partner You know parent you can be like alcohol consumption is probably not gonna support that either right and I think that's probably where I think that's where my I don't know how to I don't know how to articulate, but that's where my fixation on like oh am I drinking too much or is this Like the right thing is because I know it's suboptimal And I always I always come back to that and so I think that's part of the reason I fixate on it Probably probably more than I more than I shouldn't well the other criteria that's worth noting is cravings withdrawal intolerance So cravings is I mean, I think pretty much everybody knows what that feels like The that's something that you know, you can really be mindful of when you're having a craving look at like are you perpetuating that or can you curb that and so there's a couple different techniques to do that But one is just like allowing some time to pass um because it does pass and It's again like I talked about that tension in the body It's it's so Tim being to just be like oh, I'll have the drink or I'll eat the cake or I'll smoke the cigarette because that's gonna satisfy the craving But there's other things that will satisfy the cravings because many times it's not actually the alcohol that you're craving It's relief from that tension or relief from that uncomfortable state And so that's where going for a walk doing all the things on your coping skills list Well, and that ties back to what we were talking about earlier you were talking about um, you know Attics tend to feel the feelings right to they feel the feelings at a really high level and right learning to be able to Identify the feeling sit with the feeling and not necessarily act on the feeling immediately Like those things kind of like tie together and that's like You're angry. Okay, you're angry. That doesn't mean you have to yell right or you're sad that doesn't like you don't have to do something Like just being able to sit in the feeling and let it and let it be very well Really hard thing to do but I also feel like that's this like almost the exact same thing with the craving right and it can be like I'm feeling the feeling of being sad and that then I then that triggers the craving for alcohol And both of those things that you need are might be things you need to sit in And identify and be like okay, this will pass right and let that and that's super Like even as I say that it makes me more tense because I'm oh god That's so that's so hard to do because you have to be aware that you're sad And then you have to be aware that you're you're having a craving for something that is and it's actually to relieve the feeling of being sad right You have to just sit in that long enough to let it dissipate and it will intensify before it dissipates I can tell you from my own personal experience it usually gets stronger once you identify it and recognize it You're like, oh, yeah, that does sound really good. I would really like to have you know three fingers of bourbon right now Right and then that's when it's like looking at emotions are cues right like emotions can be uncomfortable and they're not always factual most of the time They're not but they're they're cues that we need to pay attention to okay And my sad because I just had a thought that was erroneous, you know, like I thought like oh I'm worthless so then I I felt sad Okay, let me look at why am I having that thought and that's where cognitive behavioral therapy comes in but You know, just looking at is this actually a cue a piece of information that you need to identify like hey, I'm not taking care of myself It's just like when we feel thirsty by then you know We're probably past the point we should have had something to drink you know water earlier But it's a cue right and the same you know, there's all kinds of physical cues but but I Are you that emotions are cues as well to our to our mental well-being and so using that information and that's where Talking about it can be helpful just saying it out loud. I mean, I talked to myself a lot Get out to my boyfriend um And you know, if you don't have somebody you can share it within that moment, you know, can you tell your pet can you write it down? um, you know again Journaling, I mean, I know it just sounds like a plastic There you go. So so those are some things just to look at you know, maybe maybe it will help connect connect with something You know outside of yourself and then also within you know meditation breathing exercises grounding exercises These are all things that can help With cravings to give the time to pass and sometimes it'll pass and it'll come back again And it'll pass and it'll come back again and you know, it's just a skill that that you can build over time Um, and so then tolerance is obviously needing more and more To satisfy that same feeling and so that's that's an indicator that okay This could be problematic because when I used to have two now I need four to experience the same effect and then lastly withdrawal I mean basically hangover is withdrawal. That's the body going through withdrawal, but More, more severe symptoms Definitely are an indicator of a problem that there's you know shakes There's a cute withdrawal which is life threatening for alcohol and benzodiazepines, but um, you know withdrawal from other drugs is very uncomfortable And feels like you're gonna die, but you're not actually gonna die whereas from alcohol you can so Be mindful, you know, if somebody's wanting to do a dry month I would not recommend it if they have been a heavy drinker Um, because you can go into a very important very important to to call out that that is very true because As as terrible as heroin withdrawal is it doesn't usually kill people, but right alcohol withdrawal can can actually kill you So yeah, so just be mindful of that, you know I'm not a doctor disclaimer, but four to seven days after your most recent drink um, you know If you start experiencing you know severe tremors increase in blood pressure Not you know nausea vomiting dry heaving sweats. I feel like your skin is crawling like kind of prickly a tight bander on your head These are all symptoms of acute withdrawal and so definitely you know getting medical intervention And then post-acute withdrawal syndrome It's also not fun, but it's not life-threatening and that can last anywhere up to two years if somebody's going into you know Full abstinence and that involves all kinds of emotional and mental symptom, mental health symptoms, you know mood swings anxiety Sleep disturbance appetite disturbance. I mean, it's basically a roller coaster Not everybody experiences it and not everybody experiences all of it or you know as intensely, but just something to be mindful of if somebody was you know Wanting to go into recovery or or full blown abstinence that can be a factor and it makes it difficult And that's where you really need your coping skills and you talked a little bit about structure and that I think has been Huge factor with the pandemic, right? It's like we don't all have our structure and stuff is so nebulous because we're at home more and There isn't some markers Yeah I don't have my weekend movie You know, I would go to the movies every weekend. It's like I don't have the book ends To my routine that I used to have and and you know, it's been really difficult and so that's we're just trying to create as much structure as one can To kind of regulate those things and that's where you know having training with the all has been so beneficial because I have that to count on And look forward to even when I'm not looking forward to it, right? But it's like is that thing of where I know if I just you know suit up and get out there and start talking my bells and get my warm up by then You know like you do the hardest motivation kicks in usually or I'm like well. I'm here. I might as well finish, right? And so that can be the same thing with you Trying the dry Audrey is just looking at each day and like just focusing on that day and what can you do to build some structure and distraction and And learn from it. Yeah, and I think you know, it's The the parallels are so strong because it's you know One of the things I love about kettlebell training is it is it is a mental it is much in as anything a mental discipline and a mental practice and just like You know, you were just alluding to like you just you have to go through sometimes you have to go through the motions and that that then it becomes self-reinforcing and But you do the hard thing every time every time you do it and it gets a little bit easier and you get better at doing hard things You know, and that's I think that's kind of the same thing The same thing with this is like it is like going into it knowing it might not be easy But you have a plan you have some structure You know and just know that it's not always going to feel good It's not always going to be easy But you but that you can do it you can overcome and if you fall off or you miss a training or you miss a you know You have then you just assess Right you go back and you and you and you you pick right back up where you were right you don't It's it's really easy to dwell on failure especially for the black and white You know light switch personalities. Yes, but but that's not productive right We're assessing assessing what was going on is productive and then starting back up right just picking right back up That's productive right choosing choosing the productive approach as opposed to the counterproductive or destructive approach I think is is is very very huge. So right well and just to touch on because you said you know how to someone know they need to seek help and You know, I think it's just it's less stigmatized now Maybe than it used to be but I think there's still this feeling of oh, I should be able to do this on my own or it's not that bad or You know, it's it's weak to look for help and I can just assure everyone You know, you're not alone plenty of people seek help for different things and I wish it wasn't so much of the stigma, but it's like you know if I need help With a skill I seek out an expert like I don't do my own taxes, you know, I seek out a professional. I don't try to program my own workouts You know because I you know, I need the expertise. I need the accountability And the same goes with you know medical help you know mental health treatment There's there's plenty of avenues out there. I don't believe in dogma when it comes to anything And so there's not just one way to skin a cat like there's 12 step groups. There's Buddhist-based groups There's cognitive behavioral based groups called smart recovery. There's one-on-one therapy You know if that's what somebody feels like is beneficial you to just start somewhere Starting and check with your insurance company because like I literally just I literally just got a thing from from my my insurance and email that was about They're they're increasing the coverage for mental health and substance counseling during the pandemic As they go into 2021 because I think they're realizing people are really struggling And so they're for a lot of insurance companies are covering it 100% right now because the because of the impact of the pandemic on people So I would say Check with your insurance company because you might even be able to even if you don't feel like you need professional support You might be able to get it for free. Right. So why not? I mean like if you've got somebody that can that can help you like it's a it's a tool in your tool belt And somebody that that you can lean on That has you know expertise like Audrey has is you know I feel like super super valuable So that that's my hot tip is like hey check with your insurance because you might Might actually be able to get like professional support and not have to pay anything out of pocket for it Yeah, absolutely and I mean you can just google you know online addiction help online No cost support groups. I mean that's the thing where the pandemic has opened up like you could literally go to a support group Anywhere in the world. So if you're also worried about privacy and you know because even with online meetings If you join a local Chapter so to speak of whatever organization you may see somebody that you know or you may be worried about that But now you can actually google you know 12 step meeting in Germany or smart recovery meeting in Omaha or wherever you don't live if you want to You know do that and minimize kind of that because like I understand people are hesitant and worried and there's professional Aspects, you know, I work with a lot of medical professionals and that's something that kept them from seeking treatment It's they're really worried about their medical license and you know their professional license and And even though there's HIPAA laws that they understand it's still it still can be a concern So just there's those options as well. Yeah, and that's that's part of the part of the reason I wanted to kind of be open about About some of my struggles with it is because I feel like I mean like it makes me nervous to talk about it Like I'm not gonna lie. I mean it does it does make me nervous to talk about it But I feel like it's important to do that because I think people need to know that it's It's okay to need help. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to say like hey, this is I'm having a hard time right now Like I feel like you know, it's humanizing and I think we're all in this together because You know, I there hasn't been anybody that I've said hey, I'm having a hard time right now It's been like really Everybody's having a hard time right now. I feel like and different and in different and in different areas different ways right You know some people it's you know, it's working out some people it's eating some people it's like finding the motivation to do their job or like Feel like you're being a good parent like there's all sorts of like we're all struggling in different areas You know, but I feel like we're all you know, we're all in the same storm We're not all in the same boat, but we're all in the same storm right now, you know, so I feel like it's okay to be like hey, I'm I'm struggling right now. Yeah, well, I mean, and I can definitely say that I am struggling like this has been A very difficult thing and I've gone through a lot of very difficult things Um in my life and this is just it's just so different You know, we just don't have the context and yeah, there's like two people in the world right that survived the Spanish flu and Covid, you know, they're like 108 or whatever but other than those two people on the planet like This we just you know, we're all New to this and so it's really hard because coping skills That have worked like aren't working as well or you know, it's just it's difficult and so on the note of sort of like that mental mindset because you and I talk about that a lot Is you know, I mean we can play tricks with our brain because our brain plays tricks on us, right? And that's where you have to really be aware of what are you thinking in that specific moment? You know, how what evidence do you have to support that thought or that belief and looking how that affects you? I mean, I do it all the time on the platform I'm like, this is the last minute I ever have to do you know, and I'm sprinting that last minute I mean, I actually make myself think that like I never have to do another rep again. I'm just this is the last minute, right? And it gets me through you know, it's like of course as soon as I set the bells down I know that well, I'm gonna do I have to do another four minutes here and in a couple minutes, you know But it's just getting that mindset and the same you know, and you know, and your brain doesn't scream back at you liar Because that's what happens. I tell my brain. I tell my brain that and it screams back at me. You're lying to me and I know yeah Right, well, I mean, and the same can be said for you know, a negative not about a negative thought and worry You know, it's like how many times am I gonna lie to myself and be like no, I can have this box of cookies in my house It's fine. I'm only gonna have a couple You know, this time will be different. Yeah, exactly. It's a last stop at just one Oreo. I swear Right, and so you know silly things like that, but you know, having a sense of humor about it helps But just really getting honest In the times when you need to be but then also you know, using some Jedi mind tricks Yeah, to the advantage So to recap the tips I wrote them down because I you know, well, that was one of them right things down Right To recap recap the tips right set up your environment for success, right? So removing things physically from your house If you can or putting them out of sight if you can't physically remove them Right out your wise the reasons why you're why you're doing these things get support so social support right let other people know that you're doing this and ask them If they want to support you or if they want to do it with you So getting social support then listing your strategies like finding replacement behaviors picking up a hobby go for a walk reading meditation You know something like that and then writing down and avoiding your triggers So first writing down your triggers and identifying what they are And then if they're an avoidable thing like driving past your favorite watering hole or your liquor So like avoiding those those those triggers And then finally if if you need it seeking out professional help or if you have it available to you like maybe seeking out professional help or or online help So is that a fairly Did I miss any absolutely? I think there's also the structure and and not being afraid to experiment and change things up, you know, so We're we're habitual creatures. I'm very routine and that's why part of my struggle is consistency when it comes to good nutrition, good fitness is because if one thing throws me off Then I get out of my routine and then you know, I'm like floundering so you know, but just really being aware of that and working with the schedule and experimenting with different things and if you know like in the case of the commute you change the The drive home or you change the time that you go to the store or you change the time that you have a meal or You know, whatever it is just experiment with changing the habit loop You know by dysregulating some things and and making it different so that you don't have that external cue happening Thank you so much. I really appreciate the time the the hour plus has has flown by and I want to try and keep it under two hours I keep feeling like I could keep these I could easily do two-hour pod I could just talk for days with yeah, I want to I want to be respectful of your time and I want to keep it consumable for people So I will put the link to the the DSM-5 Substance substance use criteria in the show notes as well as the list of the habits that we that we articulated so people can just have a cliff notes version Of what we recommend for dry Audrey and if if anybody wants to wants want support in dry Audrey You can you can hit me up on Instagram or any of the social media send me an email, you know, Twinsettys kettlebell club at gmail.com Happy to keep it private happy to have you in the group You know, whatever I'm gonna I'm gonna make dry Audrey a thing for me and Give it my give it my best and we'll see how we'll see how everything goes and I'll follow up with y'all and let you know Let you know how it's going. Yeah keep us posted definitely and thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast Not driving as much Listen to them as soon as they come out But yeah, I love them. It's great. That's thank you very much. I appreciate it is it's been it's been a helpful outlet for me Speaking of picking up a hobby So, you know, it's been it's been a good it's been a good outlet for me and I really enjoy I really enjoy these conversations So thank you so much for taking some time on your Sunday morning Before football starts to yeah, and you know what today is is the day that your birds are gonna get crushed My countless I was just gonna say is it is the day that we settle our bet because I think this is I think this is ultimately gonna It's ultimately gonna be the determining factor and who who has the the better or worse record I mean, we're really just going for like tallest midget at this point and thank you We're in the worst division in football and you know both teams are terrible But you know say yeah, it's been fun though having the having the competition within the competition with you So yeah one of these one of these years we're gonna be good again, you know So hopefully now we got this jail and hurts character that apparently Apparently is is okay at football so yeah, we'll see All right, well you're awesome Jordan. I love you. Thank you so much. You've done so much for me and my Just training and everything and so I'm super grateful and You're doing the hard you're doing the hard you're doing the hard part you do the hard work, but I'm I'm really I'm really pumped for February's gonna be fun. I'm I'm excited to see what you do I'm excited to I mean excited bordering on vomiting in my mouth, but yeah Yes, I mean all of the best moments in life are like equal parts fear and excitement. Yeah, that's all the best moments in life It's gonna be awesome. You're you're prepared and we've got we still got you know seven more weeks of training to get you even more ready So I know as I twist my mustache Excellent All right, well, thanks so much. Good. I'll see you in next practice You later about the game. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure so Merry Christmas. Happy new year and we will talk soon Likewise, okay. Bye. Bye Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan kundi right If you have a question, please email me at twinsities kettlebell club at gmail.com Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at twinsities kettlebell club on Twitter at tckb club Online at twinsities kettlebell club.com and please help us grow our reach and give us a review on apple podcasts Spotify stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts until next time