Jeff Butterworth | Owner of RX Strength Training, kettlebell coach, athlete

Thank you for tuning into this episode of the platform podcast. My guest this week is Jeff Butterworth Who is the owner of our X strength training in some of our Massachusetts right there in the Boston area Fantastic facility. I happened upon when I was out there visiting for my 10th wedding anniversary Jeff is an amazing guy and Really a great leader in the space and I enjoyed this conversation so greatly because we got into some of the efforts that he's made to both Keep his members safe as well as evolving as new data emerged on the COVID-19 Outbreak and how he could run a safe facility keep the members safe and also try and influence local policy to make sure that all of the policy decisions were Intelligent and followed the most recent data. I hope you really enjoy this episode He has been gracious enough to set up a free trial for his kettlebell fitness classes for anybody who listens to this episode So make sure you go check out the link in the episode notes. You can do those workouts from anywhere because they're all online so Really take advantage of that. I think they're fantastic. Jeff is an amazing coach a great trainer And the workouts are going to be fantastic. I can assure you of that. So without further ado, let's get into it Please enjoy Welcome into this episode of the platform podcast. My guest today is Jeff Butterworth He is the owner of Rx strength training in Somerville, Massachusetts right there in Boston I am very excited to have him on as his gym is one of the coolest places I have ever trained It is a powerlifting gym and Olympic weightlifting gym and a kettlebell sport gym all in this awesome warehouse in Somerville I had the luxury of getting to go in there for a training session while I was out there for my 10-year wedding anniversary on a trip to Boston And Jeff was incredibly welcoming and I was super super jealous of his facility So I was excited to have him agree to come on. Thanks for coming in Jeff. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Jordan And we were excited to share our extra training with you I just like having stuff and making sure that people get to play Dude, yeah, you you've seriously you have built one of the coolest facilities Like if I could picture in my mind what a what a gym would look like that I want to train in that is exactly what it is like it is a warehouse that you have filled with Fun equipment and really nice equipment that is clean and organized and put away the very precise way And that the members the members are serious lifters and you have like you have like just this awesome legit facility That is there to for people that want to like seriously get in shape. I I freaking love that place. Oh Gee, thanks Now you guys you guys did a lot you guys did a lot of renovation there, right? Oh, yeah, totally It's kind of one of those things that It's a running joke that you know, I've almost got it exactly the way that I want it Which is to say that it will never be exactly where that I want it. There's always going to be something that's kind of changed It's like that. It's like that perfect snatch rep, right? It's I'm almost there. I just need a few thousand more Exactly, then it'll be perfect until that Two thousand more tweaks and all that I'll get it just I'll get it just right So tell tell us a little bit how did you decide to open our extra like the process of deciding to open your own gym Is like a dream for a lot of people and it's a scary one at that. So tell us that story like how did it come about Well, I guess the interesting thing about that for me was it's not something I necessarily saw myself doing Even a year before I did it I had been working for another gym. I'd been there for almost five years And over that time I got into a bunch of different sport disciplines. I tried weightlifting. I tried basic fitness And then I really really got into kettlebells And it was at a time that nobody really understood kettlebells That there's Jim and Cambridge and so we didn't have any The owners didn't want to get me any. I just I but I wanted to train my clients that way and so I started Buying a few here and there, you know found one on Craigslist here when you know found a good deal on something there Before I knew it I had a small collection of random things like a battle rope and a tire and you know a couple of barbells and a bunch of kettlebells The raw mine And was kind of found that I was spinning my wheels at this place Didn't really have much of a future and just decided that it might be a little bit more fun for me to have a space Work with the people that I was already working with and just get going out for myself. I didn't really have much of a Much of a grand notion of what it was going to be, but I had collected a bunch of equipment So all I need was a little space and took off and opened it up in this little tiny Office space and Cambridge before I was lucky enough to find the warehouse facility we've got now nice And so what's the time for him here when you say like nobody knew what was going on with kettlebells at the time How far back are we talking That's fair. So that was like 2008 2009 And you know obviously kettlebells were around but There was not as much of a public perception It was still a kettle ball and every time you pick one up someone says aren't you worried you're gonna throw that into a mirror Like yeah, sure they're all the time. That's they leave my hand every year Yeah, it's about the same time frame for me and I at least had the benefit of you know here in the Twin Cities Is where dragon door is headquartered so at least around here There were there were people who were familiar with it But it was the same thing you know kettlebells and I was working for from lifetime lifetime fitness And I was like hey, I want to do cat I want to do kettlebells and at least they had at least they had like a program But they wanted everybody in lifetime fitness to do Dragon door and they wanted everybody to use the same bells and I was like no, but those Those bells are not my style like that's not what I want to do like I want to do kettlebell sport I was like I was never like they're like yeah, no, but that's what we'll pay for So that I was in the kettlebell fitness as a fitness tool the kettlebell for a long time before I got the kettlebell sport I'll be embarrassingly perfectly honest. I don't remember how I learned of the of the sport of oh getaway sport All I know is I all I remember is getting a whole bunch of kettlebells from at the time muscle driver They were colored incorrectly I think the 20s were green and like the reds were 16 or something like that and I had signed up for to do some kettlebell lifting with world kettlebell club at the time And all I knew is yeah, that's right. It's and he was it was great too Really, really nice guy when I when I met him that first time In Chicago and got into the idea of long cycle the clean and jerk was always my favorite lift And then I found out that there's this whole sport centered around my favorite lift and all it takes is a tremendous amount of suffering Which I consider be my strength. I'm not particularly strong. I'm just really good at suffering That is a that is a very valuable strength when it comes to kettlebell sport especially If you can if you can just refuse to die or refuse to quit Those are kind of two of the two of the biggest assets especially on long cycle in my My humble opinion because that way really is about suffering Just every time it goes up and comes down and it goes back down and comes back up you think Can this be the last one? Can one of these just like you know hit me in the eye and then I can fall over with dignity And so I just I just had one of my I just said one of my one of my athletes on for the last episode in Audrey And she gave me a new mental trick that she she tells herself every time This is the last rep you ever have to do this is the last set you ever have to do you never have to pick them up again She's like I'm not I just lying myself and I just go back for the next set after I finish my rest But I tell myself every time it's the last one I ever have to do Oh, yeah, as long as your split personalities don't start to secretly discuss in your head It should be fine Keep them in the dark about each other and one a lot of the other and you're fine Yeah, mind just yell mind just yell at each other It gets noisy and they're sometimes until it goes quiet it gets noisy for a long time So you also have a little powerlifting team there right at at our extract right So you have a kettlebell sport you have a kettlebell sport team and a powerlifting team correct Well, we've got an organized kettlebell sport team. We have a small powerlifting program And so our powerlifting coach now Chris Cameron Is working with as many people as he possibly can but can't have that many in right now But the two that are the most organized are the kettlebell sport team and the weightlifting team Nice Okay, and so how did how did that come about like how is how is powerlifting a big part of your gym and you haven't Olympic weightlifting as well, right? Yeah, that's exactly right. So the powerlifting is a we're sort of split and focus on that in that we have a bunch of people who Do compete but aren't actually part of a competitive team at our extract rating But we give them coaching we give them the proper equipment and environments Anything they need and so we've got people who compete for I know USAPL USA powerlifting and then USPA I believe it's a US Powerlifting Association and So whenever meets come up these days, you know, we we support them and send them off with gear and then I don't know cheer their success The weightlifting team is a little bit more organized that was actually the brainchild of our Club director Alex Uluat who's been a friend of mine for a long time he got to the sport a weightlifting a while back And we had a neighbor that was part of the building it was kind of a weird I don't even know how to describe this, but it was an HVAC and consignment clothing space I don't know much more than that so I asked but we It was very strange that's an odd pair Oh, yeah, it was real weird you could look in there and see like lamps next, you know a cooling unit and a bunch of dresses The they took off and so we had this extra thousand square feet in the front of the building I approached the landlord They were interviewing people to take over the space we said we'd take it And spent way too much money on flooring and platforms and a whole bunch of works in barbell sets And now it's something colorful full and full of people and something we can be really proud of but Alex has Alex's built that club to be something really really significant now We've got a bunch of competitive athletes A number of them were really looking forward to regionals and trying to qualify for The American open series When this whole pandemic thing came down and so while they've been Consistently training and doing their videos and submissions and like that. It's a tough situation but in the end Yeah, yeah So Explain to people what the differences are between powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting or weightlifting because I think a lot of people get those two terms confused when you Talk about powerlifting or talk about weightlifting. They assume they're the same sport But they absolutely are not so can you give give people a primer on like what are the differences between those two sports Yep, sorry, and what's hilarious is that would be like our kettlebell I can't say I'm trying to be nice But I'll tell you in the nicest way possible that you're wrong. So powerlifting Is this is that's the sbd that'd be a squat bench in the deadlift that's Going to be where you perform those three movements. He get three opportunities at each one And the day is organized in that fashion you get three squat opportunities to try to hit your best number Single rep each same goes to the bench press and then the end of the day is the deadlift and the end of that is your total So that would be you know similar little kettlebell sport. How many reps did you do? What was your weight class and you know what what bells were used Um weightlifting on the other hand interestingly enough would be actually the one that I don't know if it's important or not would actually use the term of power versus just work But the sport of Olympic weightlifting one word Is the clean and jerk and the snatch those are the two the oc and the ellipics So while technically doesn't have to be referred to as Olympic weightlifting most people know it because you do see it in the summer games And the clean and jerk just like kettlebell is goes from The ground in this case not just below the below the knees to the shoulders and then up overhead Whereas the snatch there's no contact with the shoulder you start with a wide grip on the floor Joe must rub just as much sling shot power with your hips as you can Drive the bell overhead and then try to catch it low and stand up So yeah, but for sports fundamental differences that it is for single rep heaviest weight you can Successfully secure and lock out overhead in both for both positions So very very different in that regard because it is for maximal force output and not strengthen endurance right Yep, that's exactly right. I described this to people all the time for who have different goals and such That I suppose if I'm being honest. I think that the best one for longevity is kettlebell sport because it offers Not only a little bit of less of an opportunity for dramatic injury though. That's not the major concern It parallels More of life activity is there are very few things in physical in in our life in our physical endeavors day-to-day that you're going to have to do one thing really hard and then somehow you've benefited from that Whereas just being able to work work work work and do some more work that can be valuable Um Of course at the same time that's not everything anyone who wants to be a powerlifter anyone who wants to be a waylifter Awesome pursuit. I highly encourage that. It's just different types of activities Yeah, absolutely. I agree. It's uh, I I mean obviously I'm biased. I mean, we're both we're both kettlebell sport aficionados You know, I'm definitely I'm definitely biased towards that but I came from I came from both powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting I pursued both of those at various times in my life So I think they like you said they all have value I'm curious. What's your what's your thought on the crossfit movement because it's obviously taking A lot of Olympic weightlifting in principle But we're moving it from the purity of a one rep max and going for time and speed and repetitions over time So kind of similar to kettlebell sport sub-maximal load over time for these explosive movements What what are your thoughts on you know the crossfit application of Olympic weightlifting? So there are a couple of different ways to look at that one for one. I am I'm one of those people that kind of made the transition from Crossfit was great then it got really really washed out and like you know Photo copy of a photocopy And I was really upset at it for a while And then kind of turned that corner and I've be I've I'm able to understand that Crossfit itself is not necessarily something to love or to hate It's a branded exercise system of exercise and you know affiliated system exercise So you can find some great crossfit gyms. There are always going to be great gyms And you can find some terrible crossfit gyms that should never have been granted the license to try to get people in the fitness so The Long-winded explanation to you know a gym as a gym as a gym they just happen to have good marketing tools but the crossfit specific application of a little bit of Olympic weightlifting Can be solid in principle because really all you're looking at doing is taking a series of movements That your body can perform and challenging How you move with a heavy load overhead to the shoulders in the squad whatever The danger comes in the lack of control and the lack of attention So the problem with weightlifting as a whole in something that's going to be high rep is you're looking at a greater incidence of potential injury That's not to say that it's going to happen you might have people do this their whole lives and never even have a muscle treat The problem is when you start to introduce intensity into volume And you start to go into something that's more than a hundred percent of what your body can handle So I love the intensity. I love the enthusiasm and I love the use of the Olympic movements because anything compound Explosive and powerful like that is going to benefit your body from a structural building perspective and From a muscle growth perspective problem is if you know that you can you know snatch 60 kilos overhead And you can do that three times Well, what if you say, well, yeah, but that guy over there can do it six times. I'm going to do it seven times All right, fine. I did it seven times last week. I've got to hit a PR my life as meaningless I've got to do it nine times and that is where you might be outpacing your ability to perform the work And that's where a little bit more of a dramatic incident of injury might lie Very well said that I think you nailed a lot of my perspective on it as well. I'm I'm kind of in that same boat like I love it in principle and I know some fantastic CrossFit coaches and some fantastic cross CrossFit boxes You know, I have one close to my house here. There's you know several that are excellent around here And then I've also had that same experience where I've had people come to me that are broken because they're like yeah I snatched a hundred and thirty five You know 135 pounds, you know, 14 times in 16 16 seconds. I'm like, what? What are you what are you doing? Well, I was competing right we were going for time. It was a you know 30 30 second max set like You know, and you get that you just just like uh, but I understand the instinct though too And it's it's one of those like I it's the double-edged sort of it like I appreciate the community of it and I understand the the competitive aspect of it and that's part of what makes it successful is it does Tap into that human instinct of wanting to compete and you get people that push themselves to these incredible Achievements and they you know for a lot of people. It's helped them transform their life But then you also have people that are deconditioned and have no business. I mean they can't they can't even you know Move themselves around a dowel appropriately yet alone a loaded barbell, you know, and that's the Yep That's the the tricky part So How do you guys approach assessment of clients when they when they come in when somebody when somebody comes to you and you're like Yeah, cuz I know you're you're really big on healthy functional movement patterns I see you get the content that you put out there on on Instagram. He's a great follow on Instagram By the way guys you should definitely give him a follow But we how do you guys assess people when they come in? So when now we come in we we get more of an assessment when it's a personal training crime because we can get through a whole series of movements but we do have something that we do with our Class folks as well and it's mostly Involved in the mobility segment that we do in the beginning of the class So the coach who is teaching the class and they've only got eyes on a few people right now. Thanks to our capacity limits, but say people first We have whole series of mobility drills that the entire class goes through prior to the workout That are related to workouts So we have a squat specific mobility day. We have a deadlift specific mobility day I have several different types of kettlebell upper body lower body full body mobility components And it gives the coach an opportunity to look at the all the individual clients moving So you can see all right this person can barely get their back in a flexion doing a cat cow this person You know you try to do a Shoulder a controller taking the rotation of the shoulder going around like a windmill and you know they're tracing like A two-foot circle Almost a full arms lengthen their body. I mean, they're not going to be able to get their arms back far And so we know what movements they're going to be able to handle what movements they aren't And in the event that it looks like there's some serious movement in pinging or joint inflexibility The coach can spend more time with that person either working through You've mentioned the dowel working through using like a PVC pipe or something like that So make sure to move into sound or Figuring out adaptations so that's and this is where we have our our double up component of it I'm a big fan of adaptation rather than even calling it regressions or just sticking someone off in the corner So we work with the clients based on their mobility issues to be able to do something that is either an adaptation or a lighter variation Then everyone else in the class so that it doesn't feel like they're you know being singled out and that they're less capable If somebody can't get the bar and they're back to get their elbows up over there And get their hands up in the bar without you know tweaking their shoulders Maybe what they're going to be doing that day is a really heavy series of goblet squats or double kettlebell rack squats And we even have some other types of bars like a safety squat bar So that they can perform the movement You know to a box to you know to various depths or to the pins and not put themselves in danger while they're learning that movement So you find not sticking them off in the corner is is a good idea that's General that's novel right Everyone's being clear you can't you can't squat go stand in the immobile corner Second you you do wall sits for a while that'll somehow make you better in squat I like I like that so it sounds like you guys have a have a pretty a pretty robust a pretty robust process of assessment and then customizing To that person's individual needs to keep them progressing and is that is the goal to get everyone to be able to do a particular set of fundamental movements Or is it really customized based on whatever that person's goals are So I like to try to keep a really fluid aspect to that because my interpretation of fitness anyway You know big apologies to any of our waylipters and powerlipters listening in because I don't mean to say that we're not all equally important but The strength sports in general and I love my kettlebell sports are a really fun means to an end Our philosophy on fitness is essentially that we We fitness as an activity because we don't do physical labor anymore The you know, we have computers. We have cars. We have everything that does work for us But our bodies still need that physical simulation And you know while you could get the same kind of strength and strength and muscle development from Carrying a bunch of rocks and sticks around in the field. It's a lot more fun to be able to use a barbell and kettlebells And other things and be able to qualify and quantify your efforts and your progress. So The you know the ridiculing idea I guess is it does not matter how much you squat That's not going to make you better at your job. That's not going to make you better at your relationships It doesn't specifically make you healthier being stronger makes you healthier And so I honestly could care less if somebody is barbell back squatting That's just one of the easiest ways to load your body in a really heavy capacity If you know somebody hates hates hates barbell squatting I might never have them barbell squat The entire time there are rx They might just be doing heavy loaded squats. They might just be doing deadlifts They might just be doing zertra squats Something that's going to peak their interest and get them to be physically active while getting their body stronger That's honestly the most important thing for me But as I rant on We do indeed want everyone to be able to move properly So I the goal isn't necessarily be able to do the best barbell movement The goal is to be able to move your body in any way that it is supposed to be able to move And using loaded stimuli is one of the best ways to get your body to adapt like that Nice That's a that's a really well articulated philosophy How did you how did you come up how did you come about that I'm assuming I'm assuming it evolved over time So let's let's get into your let's get into your background over that as far as what you know How did you start getting involved in physical training and educate you know What was your education and you know how did how did you come to this philosophy? Yeah, certainly I'm okay So I I think that I came into the philosophy and around it by way because I was I would say once upon a time it wasn't that long ago I would say just physically a waste of space and come totally incapable When I got out of college I didn't really have a background and fitness or strength training or anything I hadn't even really Taken sports seriously when I was in high school. What did you study in college? Public relations Interesting. Okay, I would have I would have just assumed that you you had some anatomy physiology You know exercise science something just because of the way you articulate All of the concepts that you do so um I shouldn't say I'm surprised But I am surprised just because it doesn't confirm my assumption, but anyways, God That's a great way to be honest. So that's that's good Well, thank you. So the that's actually kind of a blessing because I don't remember as much as I did when I was younger I don't think I was taking my education or any kind of learning seriously In their first half of my life. So um, I got I did all of that later on So I have indeed you know done my biology I had taken my anatomy physiology courses exclusive of my college experience So I took all those courses just so I would be a more well-versed coach stronger coach and Most of my strength training background and education comes from various certifications and experiences and things like that So all the academic stuff I did pick up from various schools around Boston In courses that I took but most of it has been experiential So my I started off being fairly overweight I had gotten out of a PR job that I really didn't enjoy My the only place I could go was to you know what my bosses were doing and I didn't want to do what they were doing So um got into selling memberships at A Boston sports clubs, which is your average, uh, you know big Mill type commercial gym Big bucks to exactly didn't didn't do it better than you We know it and we know it However, boy are they not I mean So uh got to go work into this other gym in Cambridge Uh doing the same thing uh got talking to the guy who did the running club decided I was gonna try to get back into running and dropped a bunch of weight, ran some marathons running marathons is stupid Um, I know now and then got into fitness and physical training and such uh kind of made a mentality shift And I've been doing that ever since so initially I was definitely all about just got to get stronger Got to do these cool-looking things Uh, we know much social media at the time, but they were magazines and websites and t-nation and all that uh, and so um over time Oh yeah, the the number one source of those science That's where you find all the best stuff. Oh, yeah, for sure. It's on the forum especially Oh, yeah, of course. That's that's that's uh, that's where the truth is found Um Because anybody can post there so you know, it's you know, it's the best information only people that really know their time to post It's the original fitness QAnon So yeah, um, but yeah, the more I got in the kettlebells the more interested I became in Movement patterns rather than just let's see if I can lift this heavy barbell I also found that I felt a lot better. I was moving a lot better Rarely were there any days that I was in pain soreness doesn't count And so I started to develop a little bit more of a concept of uh No pain. No gain is relative. You should have a little bit of soreness But if you hurt all the time for no reason, you're probably doing something wrong Uh, I tell my athletes if it sucks. I don't care if it hurts. I care very much Right exactly start to learn the difference between that kind of hurts and this is about to hurt forever So yeah, I got into a little bit more of the movement pattern stuff and uh, I'll talk to a bunch of guys um You know with with kettlebell uh with kettlebells. I've been talking uh to Initially Valeri Federico with World kettlebell club I got involved with some other folks just sort of in the local area and we got to know kettlebells really well And now recently I've been doing a lot more with um Marcus Martinez and kettlebell kings So then that's been that's been tremendous to be part of that uh part of that group um, but uh You know other stuff as well Uh doing a lot of stuff with uh steel mace and clubs. I initially talked to Rick Brown and uh leoric is the uh, you know Masters of mace Masters of mace see a great guys and they are all about that kind of moving pattern stuff too and you know It's been it's been a great thing to try to figure out Almost like a martial art, you know my tools the kettlebell someone's tools the mace You can use all these things even a barbell the goal is not can you lift this thing Obviously you can lift that thing if I look at a 10 pound mace I can lift that that might be tough for someone else if I look at an 80 pound mace That's going to be a bear for me to even hold straight up and down But someone else might be able to swing that for 10 reps And so the goal becomes how well can you move your body around your chosen implement And how much weight can you handle before technique starts to break down which they never should But how it's it's not about being stronger and being able to do more. It's about Progressing making your body adapt giving it those stimuli that have a steady progression Not just g. I wonder if I can do this today. That's kind of a recipe for disaster Well, then I shouldn't I shouldn't admit that when I came out there and I saw your I saw your your American flag log press. I was like I have to do that. I just I have to I hadn't done I hadn't done log press in God, I don't know how long it had to have been at least five years since I had done a log press because I don't have a You know around but I was like I haven't land around I'm going to load this up and I'm going to do it I think I did a 225 log press just to just to see if I could still Now I saw that was a sweeping generalization going to say no you should never just figure think you could see if you should do it There is you know within reason you know what you're going to be capable of Interestingly now if I think that long cyclers are and people who know kettlebell double jerk are uniquely suited to just being able to pick up the log Right away even I know you had experience, but like you you know there is there is a margin for air Yeah, it certainly was within my comfort space because it wasn't like I saw somebody like doing parkour And I was like I'm going to try that it was it was like oh, I lived I lived heavy things like that's kind of my thing So yeah, I'm going to try that because it's there Right, exactly. I would fall to my death doing parkour You've been if it was like railing I don't need to be on any of those fail reels of people trying to do parkour that had no business doing parkour So I'm that's definitely not going to be the same No, amazed by the people that you see who do amazing things But I can't help but think about the people you know the 18 people who tried that yesterday And you're not going to see their video Well, it's it's to me it's always like the the risk reward thing too. It's like okay if I if I decide I'm going to do a double 40 You know clean and jerk on the on the kettlebells if I don't get the clean I just drop them Right, but if I'm like trying to do a bit flip off of an eight-foot cement wall and I and I miss like You end up in the ER Sequence of failures is very very high So it's just doesn't that's right quite seem worth it to me I have that same issue when I see like just the what I call the stupid human tricks on Instagram like they're cool They're fun to watch like don't get me wrong But it's like wait, why are you doing pushups with olympic olympic rings on top of the handle of a bell with one foot on the another bell Like why I don't understand the Yeah Exactly like that looks that looks really cool never there. I'm sure if I go back to my Instagram There's a couple of things to like why did I do that that doesn't really fit it with my foot, but um No, it's very true the I like the idea of progressing because your goal is to build something that will last over time And my biggest problem with things like training through the pain or you know needing to go blood vessel popping You know eyes bulging this one last big rep is that can Change you for the rest of your life immediately in a very bad way And so I love the idea of accessible and sustainable fitness That's not to say the powerlifting away lifting can't be that with the idea that you can do something that will make your body Tough for a more bulletproof thicker skin, you know better bones all of that and the goal is to you know over the course of years and decade You'll become better. You'll become stronger. You're not looking to impress the 10 people that are in the room right now You're looking to impress yourself 30 years down the line Yeah, yeah, I love that and I've definitely been Both victim to and of that mindset of You know, I got to be the strongest guy in the room Why yep me too. It's a very it's a very small room and You know I was one of those you know, that's but that's that you know 18 19 20-year-old mentality like I got to be the strongest guy here You know, it's like okay great go to a bit. Go to a bigger room and you're the you're the 20th strongest person Oh, and when you start taking weight class into account Guess what you're competing in the heavy weight weight class of powerlifting if you're not fully geared up and pressing You know bench pressing 800 pounds and squatting a thousand year You're not even in the conversation. So Right exactly and you should still be proud of what you can do. Yeah. Oh, it's just so high And also is it adding to is it specifically adding to your life? You know, it's kind of like I could low-hanging fruit some more things about you know a Strength sport that could purportedly kill you even though, you know, the people who breaks that sport know better But how much does it add to your life? You know, we're dissimilar fashion like let's say somebody is You know really really into I don't know Weaving baskets or playing video games Those are things that you can do and if they make you happy that's certainly something you should enjoy You'll you can that that can pass the time that can make you happy that can make you better mentally But there is that idea of does this in general make my life better And so it certainly can the answer can be yes just about anything It's just what to the what does it cost as well? It's just time. Could you be spending that time on something else if it's potentially putting your health at risk? Could you be doing a variation of this that means you're going to be you know Still doing this when you're 80 You know, it's what's the longevity like? Yeah, I I'm with you on that. I think I think it's very important that we assess Is the time well invested and is it sustainable what I'm what I'm trying to do because I like the framework the filter, you know, is this enhancing in any way because if it's not enhancing in any way Then then it's wasting time and the time is our most precious resource. So don't don't do things that waste that so Yeah, exactly high efficiency. I mean, we're talking about where the people that will Pick up a heavy thing And then we'll do it again and then we'll do it again and then we'll do it again Until like five or 10 or 30 minutes is up and then somehow we've accomplished But I mean, you know We enjoy it. But it's an invest it's an investment in being able to walk down the stairs when I'm 80 years old That's the way I look at it. That's exactly right. I mean, I'm paying I'm paying down I'm paying down that loan so that I can yeah, I can so that I can stay active and healthy Hopefully when I'm and still around Hopefully at that point. This is your right you're this is your physical capability stock market that you're You're investing in currently exactly I love that. It's a it's my physical investment 401k. I need to be Robust portfolio I'm working on it. I'm working on it and we're trying to trim the fat in certain areas But you know, that's neither you're over there. Well, we'll kill that analogy Right now. That's right. It's that checks out. It totally works But you know, you got to get to grow too. So yeah So I want to I want to make sure that we we talk about this because it's something that I've seen you post a lot about and we talked about it before we started recording You know, obviously as a gym owner you have invested, you know, your blood, sweat, Tiggers and a significant sum of money into opening your own facility and you from Day one of the pandemic and the interventions have been very open and supportive for the most part of the Stay safe initiatives that have been implemented in the Commonwealth But you've also recently had had some push back and spoken out against some of the regulations What has that experience been like? I mean as somebody who has invested so much of their Their life energy into building your dream What does that feel like to to have your gym shut down and to try and work around the restrictions like what is that? What has that been like for you So it's such a tough one Because then I'll I'll address specifically that there are two different Responses like you said that we had there was the early one that we were very much in support of our state and Local leadership's handling of the situation because we just didn't know enough and the last thing I ever want to be is The second last thing I ever want to be as a hypocrite the very very last thing I ever want to be is a danger to others and so you know Where there were a lot of people who were shouting about gems and being good for mental health and you know You're gonna be to have a better immune system if you're if you're healthy or so Gyms are essential that language and that idea doesn't really track Yes, your immune system is probably gonna be a little bit stronger if you're healthy and fit But not because I worked out yesterday And it's certainly not going to be enough to help your body fight off pathogens that are completely brand new and unseen You know, that's the that science is obvious The the other element to that is yes mental health is important. I really agree But at the same time other people's lives and health are equally if not more important I shouldn't say more equally important and to say that we need to keep open the thing that I enjoy So that others can take the risk is not an equitable exchange So our position early on was yeah, we don't know anything about this virus. They're learning things every day What they knew last week is completely changed because they learned something else We don't know enough everyone's got to take the most the highest possible precautions You know, let's just try to go online and just make this work And then we went through months and months of that We did the online thing we had very few people in the gym at a time when we were allowed to And then eventually we had protocols in place that meant we knew this virus was mostly airborne mostly Expelled from you know drop puts and particles from the lungs and from the human body So we're masks have the air purifiers around have fresh air constantly throughout the gym clean everything constantly Keep people apart. These are all things that we knew we're working and so thanks to that we haven't seen a single case come out of the gym The problem that we face recently is that our city and specifically along with Boston another town nearby Said that when the state was backing off about 10% from 50% to 40% on what gyms could be Can gyms capacity limits. They decided that they were just going to shut us down And on paper the idea of gyms being super spreaders Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense anymore because especially because we know the steps that we can take to be safer And then we're not seeing those same steps being taken by restaurants and bars and other indoor facilities who have higher traffic Higher traffic volumes and significantly lower Perspectives on how people should behave. You know you can't eat with a mask on. I guess it was up to take your mask off That's fine, but that does still mean transmission potential is higher So we were singled out and I'll sort of nerd off on the details here Details were data was released by the state of Massachusetts from November 5th to December 8th, which includes that obnoxious Thanks for having travel And it turns out that I get this one you know like to try to give this whole thing together every time We had 40,770 new cases in Massachusetts and recreational and cultural services in compasses Here we go gyms fitness facilities swimming pools beaches movie theaters and casinos All collectively contributed 17 new cases to the 40,770 So even if we were looking at gyms being a major part of this which they can't possibly be We're also lumped in there with casinos as movie theaters So I think it was something like 0.29 percent of all new cases came from gyms fitness facilities swimming pools beaches movie theaters and casinos Which isn't even a third of a percent so we're not super spreader sites My biggest fear is that You know the some of the gyms shut down, but it just creates a false sense of security for anyone in the area because oh good They're doing something about it But nothing is really being done about it. It's a red herring. You don't actually get anything done It lulls people into false sense of security and then they go back to doing the things that they did like household gatherings Which were the major super spreader sites so There's my soapbox, but that was where we sort of started to be a little bit non-compliant When they said we had to shut down and we simply followed the guidance of the state and reduced our capacities That's down to 10 athletes or 10 people including the coach in the space at one time And you know, it's tough, but we're gonna make it work Yeah, and that's I I can't I can't imagine You know, I had my gym here in the Twin Cities for a while, but you know, I got out of that for you know But decade ago I can't imagine At that point having invested my life savings to open the facility I can't imagine being told you have to close And like You know the the emotional distress that that must cause and then the the The thing that really Erks me I think the most about it is You have this kind of binary response you have people that are like Well, we need we just need to shut everything down and we just need everybody just needs to stay home And we need to do nothing and then you have the other the other side you have the people like no everything needs to stay open And I'm like everything I'm not gonna listen as you know, it's like no, there has to be a Like there there has to be some level of intelligent discourse around this because like you know to your point Like a casino's risk profile is significantly higher than your risk profile Our restaurants risk profile is is is higher because like you said you have to remove your mask to eat or drink You don't have to remove your mask while you work out Right and like you guys were compliant with the With the regulations that were being passed on to you by the scientists who were studying it and you know It's just I struggle with I struggle with the you know, where do we find the right nuance to it because you know I've had this same conversation with other people you know trying to explain They're like well, why is McDonald's open and the gym isn't you know I think you got to it kind of early is like well food technically is essentially even if it's terrible crappy You know terrible crappy quality food. It's still food and everybody needs to eat Not everybody needs to work out and you you know You talked about latency of of of effect, you know based on the intervention right You're not going to be healthier immediately from starting to work out But you will get sick immediately if you catch the virus right so it's like There's there's all of these factors and it's it's not an easy. It's not an easy solution But I just I feel like I feel like the inability to have nuanced conversation around it has led to um Re a very reactionary very polarized Uh, and frankly in frankly stupid response on both sides. I mean I I think it is stupid for somebody to be like we just need to do nothing everybody needs to stay home the entire time It's like well, we've we've done that but that we can't do that for forever And right, well, so can't have the like well, we should just be able to do whatever we want don't tread on me It's like well, no, there we have a responsibility to others as well. So you know, I don't know what the I don't know what the right answer is there But I find it uh, I find it incredibly incredibly challenging Yeah, I think I mean so the the best answer that I think I could probably offer is um, if we had More of a type of industry coalition. This is actually something that we did early in the pandemic. We wrote a plan um, I helped a co-author a plan for the state Uh, for federal facilities reopening because we cared about them actually being safe and then we um edited that plan and I presented that to Somerville and they they pretty much used our plan And so what we've been doing I like to think is kind of an industry leader We have the capacity and the ability to totally refresh the air in the space We have a CO2 monitor to just ensure that we don't get above a certain You know parts per million six fifty is our is our goal because the CDC wants 800 Um, and we've got uh, these air purifiers that are Completely scrubbing the air in 30-minute periods every you know throughout the day and everyone's mandated to wear masks So it's like it's almost impossible for any of this by the virus to be spread So for our city to just turn around and say no you're the one shutting down And it's like what we showed you what we were doing we want other people to do this if you're shutting us down The no one will do the right thing because the role that that model isn't there We want we just want the opportunity to show people that it can work And that this is you know, it's expensive and it's kind of time-consuming and kind of takes up most of your life But it can be done so that we can all survive in the short term and Or I'm sorry in the long term and not get anyone sick while we're doing it And am I correct in assuming that you didn't receive any assistance to do those interventions You did them out of your own pocket just to keep your keep your business going Yeah, that's exactly right the the air purifiers may have made up the $1,000 each we have four of them We've got an $1,800 sanitizing backpack headed by a whole bunch of us up to create barriers You know giant air circulation machine to try to get the air refreshed in the space We go through a lot of sanitizing spray It's become like I try not to think about all the things that that money would have done for the gym And all the equipment we could have bought but I mean since we're kind of in the middle of we don't get to keep that money But we do get to say open at the very least it means that we will hopefully be alive at the end of all this and we'll be able to go back to all those nice things we were just talking about earlier Yeah, so I mean first of all thank you very much for taking a leadership position in the industry and advocating for a common sense approach And trying to be a counterfactual argument you know that everybody could see what what could be done I really I really applaud your leadership position because it's not an it's not an easy thing to do and into Early on say okay, I agree and then in the face of new data say I no longer agree That is that is a very Intellectual intellectual and appropriate response I think so I want to applaud you for for the leadership that you're showing in that and What's what's next for you guys? I mean how are you guys doing? How can how can people how can people support you? You know, how are how are things going? Oh, well, thank you. Um, so we're we're doing someone okay The our membership is still there. It's not as big as it was we're you know At a slightly higher than half fraction of where we were pre-pandemic and the classes we really can't have more than four people at a time I've been really lucky and that my kettlebell classes I usually have no more than three or four people with me at the gym when I'm teaching them at night But I've usually got six seven eight people joining me Excuse me online And so I'm teaching between them as other my folks in the gym and the screen so I can still be I can still do all this A bunch of our folks been out and got a whole bunch of you know new toys from kettlebell kings And so the internet has indeed helped with this sort of thing If anybody wanted to hop on and start taking my kettlebell at home classes That would be a big support and I'll make you friends But in general, you know, if you're in the Boston area as soon as the sanctions are lifted We'd love to have you at the gym will And we'll keep you safe So so for the kettlebell classes tell people a little bit more about what style are they what you know What times are they and we'll make get me a link and I'll make sure that it's in the show notes so people can People can join you Certainly, that would be great. So I admit while kettlebell sport is like my baby my my my life and kettlebells most of what we're doing is is a fitness approach. So Every class has has a mobility component than a warm-up and then we do a Heavy strength component and then a condition and component and core if we have time because we don't like abs It's kind of like a like an all-in-one fitness approach and it kind it really goes toward the idea that You can indeed get everything you need out of a kettlebell or a set of kettlebells All we're doing is Recreating a lot of the stimuli that you would have that you would find in a powerlifting or weightlifting program A group exercise class where all you're looking to do is feel the burn And you know other various types of conditioning and movement oriented stimuli So you get everything in this delicious sandwich of fitness and it's been working really well How long are the classes? I would love to say an hour, but I usually run over about 10 minutes, but it's at the end of the night so it's out of their deal Okay Yeah, so you know an hour two an hour and 20 minutes will say Matt you know max time investment which when you don't have a commute You know, and yeah, and they only they only need one bell right you only need obviously multiple bells of different weights Is ideal, but you only need one right? Yeah, that's correct So a lot of what we do because I have several clients who only have the one bell we do I do a lot with explaining Tempo variation and generating tension So if you only have an eight kilo bell for example, we're supposed to be doing you know Working up the heavy sets of eight squats. What I'll have them do instead is Possibly add some more reps if that's really what they're into or generate tension against the bell So try to squeeze the bell together with your arms and pull the handle apart with your with your hands And then generate tension to the ground like you're pulling yourself away from a force And then squeezing the ground with your feet and driving away as though you're in a leg press Rather than just bouncing up and down on a goblet squat So generating more tension even though you're not carrying more load can stimulate the same kind of Adaptation from your nerves from your muscles so that they'll grow because of that pressure Not necessarily just because of the weight So that's one variation on the adaptation and then you know all all other sorts of things you can work with tempo You can slow it down so that the movement costs you more It's just all about getting your body to do a little bit more with the tools you got and I As you couldn't tell from me talking so much today I rather verbosely explain how that's supposed to go down. So uh, you know, no, it's coming in here in the dark That's awesome. I well, I I think you are not verbose. I think you're at the appropriate level of talkative So it's why thank you. It's always it's always a lot more fun to have conversations with people who also talk I appreciate Well, I want to be respectful of your time. I know we blocked an hour and we're coming right up against that So I just want to ask you know as far as for 2021 what what are your big hopes for for 2021? And what are your what are your focuses and what are your intentions this year? I won't say resolution because I don't believe in resolutions But what are what are you what are you focused on what are what are your intentions? What are your goals this year? Exactly. You should be getting better all the time at a steady rate. That's what we do So everything we're doing is sort of hinging around the idea that we may indeed be able to vaccinate properly and get get this virus thing behind us But a big a big thing we're going to surge toward is get in the classes back in session I'm going to keep the kettlebell fitness thing going and then get the kettlebell sport program back up and running a little bit more But one of the things that we have been building towards for the past couple of years That we were expecting to be in the building phases of right now Is opening into the facility across the country? We're still looking toward opening in a second rx training in California Oh Where is it is it double secret still or care? Is there a particular geo location in California that you're that you're looking at No, I like to tell as many people as I can so that I am a little bit more responsible to making sure it gets done We're looking mostly at orange county area There's tons of gyms in LA and we really like the the laid-back vibe down there It's you know, it's near a bunch of different types of communities and I don't need to be somewhere fancy. I don't need to be near. I don't know for lack of a better. You've had a fancy dog. I mean, oh he is so fancy A little flip. I'm sorry. He's doing well. He's he's got his he's got his third round of chemo tomorrow But he's he's straight. He's soldiery through it like a champ. That's good to hear. Yeah. Well, that's awesome So what's the what's the target opening date for for or I mean, I guess it's going to depend light But you know assuming assuming mid mid summer we turn the corner on vaccination. What's the what's the target for opening an orange county location Well, it'll be a little bit of checking and see where the finances are because so a little bit of a got drained and trying to keep the You know, keep courage on a float But I'd like to think that we can probably still get it done within a year year and a half The initial target had been pretty much now and since that all got dashed I think you're if we're if we're pushed off a year will be lucky But I think if we if we work really hard 18 months isn't appropriate. Yes Awesome. Awesome. Well, that's that's fantastic. I'm glad I asked because that's a huge goal Yeah, I'm I'm excited for you man. That's really that's really exciting. So good luck I hope it I hope it comes to fruition and like you said, I hope we I hope we get this vaccination program ramped up and get some shots into arms and you know every but then we can stop having the debate about what's The right interventions and we can just get back to some semblance of a new normal hopefully. Yep That's that's right now and get back to being able to build more do more affect more people in a good way and Yeah, that's right exactly. We like that stuff. Awesome. Well, Jeff Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time and I wish you nothing but the best and I look forward to seeing you in person again Hopefully in the not too distant future. I'll get back out there to Boston and and we'll go lift some heavy stuff together Oh, yeah, definitely. Thank you very much Jordan. It was really really a pleasure and honor being on the podcast I love I love your stuff and As soon as we get that gym open in California One of the first things we'll do is have you out there to do maybe like an on-site podcast. That'd be great Oh, that'd be awesome. I would love that. Thank you very much Of course, California's fun. Yeah, absolutely. All right sounds good. Thank you so much, Jeff. We'll talk soon, man Thanks, Jordan. See you buddy Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright, right If you have a question, please email me at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club at gmail.com Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club on Twitter at TCKB Club Online at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club.com And please help us grow our reach and give us a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts Until next time