Dan John | Author, Coach, Professor, Kettlebell Legend

What is happening everyone? Welcome into the season two finale of the platform podcast I am incredibly honored and excited to have in Dan John as my guest on today's episode He is truly a legend in the field one of the original OGs of kettlebell training but his expertise and knowledge goes so far beyond that Dan is a man that I aspire to be like He is not defined by any one title that you could give him. He's a professor. He was a Fulbright scholar. He was an all-American athlete National champion in the discus. He's competed in the Highland games. He holds American records in weightlifting Olympic lifting He is a wealth of knowledge and a man who has really taken the time and effort to share his knowledge with the world codify his knowledge and give people tools and he gives of his knowledge So so generously. I highly recommend following him on Instagram check out his podcast go to Dan John University You can learn all sorts of things. He is truly a wealth of knowledge about strength training and coaching and principles and one of his great great strengths I think you'll see from this conversation is taking what most people consider to be very complex Concepts and being able to distill them down to their essence and put them into bite-sized lessons that nearly anybody can comprehend and They are usually very simple instructions. They may not be easy, but they're simple Dan that's the and that's really the the gist of it. That's really what it comes down to I hope you really enjoy this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it So without further ado, let's get into this week's episode. Please enjoy All right welcome into the platform podcast my guest today is Dan John If you don't know who Dan John is do you even kettlebell bro? Dan John is a professor. He is a coach. He is one of the original big names in kettlebell training here in the US and he is Also the owner of Dan John University. He's written Roughly a dozen books and he's all over the place with just a wealth of knowledge I am incredibly excited to have him on so Dan. Thank you so much for for coming on You bet. Thank you. It's this worked out really well John, good. I'm glad to hear that So we were we were talking just a little bit about Before we before we started you said I should have seen you as a kid I operated under the assumption that because you were a D1 athlete That you you will fall on the genetically gifted end of the spectrum and I my assumption is it sounds like maybe wrong So tell us a little bit about that Well, the ninth grade away to 118 pounds played little linebacker You know through the discus two feet behind the ring first time I tried it Built myself up to 103 feet that year, which was really good and Bulked up to about 130 as a sophomore graduated high school at 162 Then met Dick nightmare and went from 162 to 202 in four months with Olympic lifting Nice Yes, so I was I mean, I'm a fast twitchy guy obviously and I certainly have a lot more So I'm just formatting I think I have a lot more ability to push through pain than normal people A lot more ability to stay on the path Like I'm telling George, you know That's it right there. I mean you you can send if I have a gift. It's my ability to do what I say I'm gonna do you know My professor Dr. O'Connor she told She told my students they went up for a visit at the school and time she goes Yeah, we sat down Dan John to get his master's we said do this he said stood up nodded Nine months later you had his thesis he had all his coursework done and everything finished So I got a master's in nine months because that and she said it was the only person ever to do what they said You know So I I have that rare ability to follow good advice and finish I think that I think that consistency is the base of any pyramid when you're talking about skill acquisition or Completion of of a milestone right like consistency applied over time is is really the the base of the pyramid right? I think so I think so I mean we can argue about a lot of other stuff But it's gonna come back to repetitions about repeatable about doable you know logical is gonna be in there a lot of holes, you know That's awesome. So how many books have you have you written now? I said about a dozen because I lost count I was going through him and I was going through him in my head But I can't I can't separate the books from the ebooks from the videos from the like all the all the various content over the year I think it's 14 With what you want to consider To drag indoor hardstyle and easy strength and then Nine plus with laria on target. Yeah Wow, that's that's that's fantastic. That's a lot of that's a lot of output What does it like I mean what is it like to publish a book like what is that how does what does that feel like to to decide I'm gonna write a book and then and be to actually get it to get it published. What does that feel like well? I always joke that if my dad would have been alive he'd be traveling around you know cases in my books. Give him every single forcing It is There's two sides to it you know first. I don't like to read anything. I write So that's the hardest part of the process for me is reading my own stuff but I find it very easy to knock a book out You know, I always say throw or throw a jumper jump spring or sprint writers right, you know, I get up at five six in the morning depends um, you know Get the dog up You know start you know usually now the Now I start the coffee. I used to just have it set as a timer, but I always get it before and I'll come up here and answer emails I'll answer forum posts and then I start writing and I write until it's time to work out. I work out that I eat so That's there's my writing schedule and I I think the key if there is a secret to writing is to um Is to not it's well, it's just like how do you get? How do you get strong man? You got to put the reps in so it's about the reps You know, it's still it Success in life keeps circling around the same truths, you know I mean, you don't marry your wife and turn her on the wedding day and say I love you that out a whole joward for 60 years You know, you should probably tell your kids every day, you know, by your words and your actions So it really a lot of it's a rep The one thing that I think helps me a lot is I have a very spreadsheet brain if then So when I'm putting together a book very often. It's the You know what someone will say what if and then of course, well you really want the answer or are we just gonna have John, we just chuckle them along here because If you if you say what if I mean, you got three hours with me because I'm gonna go I'm gonna take that thing all the way out, you know So we're going to have done a full decision tree map of what ifs and what ifs absolutely and that's you know If you ever side the coach football or well straight throwing what I mean anything heck you want to teach you know first grade You know the alphabet, you know, it's gonna be an if then thing, you know, it's gonna be You know, you got to master certain things before you can move on and that's That's not appreciated anymore I I think if I may one of your greatest talents and one of the things I most admire about you is is that logical that logical process of taking things to their first principles Right, you're you're able to take you're able to take what what most people Conceptualize in their head as these very difficult things and break them down from What their assumptions are and go all the way up the tree to know here's here's the first principles from which you start and you give people Very simple instructions that are easy to follow and simple not Simple easy Easy to follow in that they're simple instructions not easy to execute necessarily But you you give them things that are easy to understand and say You got to do this right like strength made simple or simple strength. Excuse me is Very much about that right? It's about okay, you come into the gym you did five reps yesterday today Today you do six you come back tomorrow you do seven right like it's a very simple very simple premise you can do that yeah um You know a good friend John Powell the old world record whole discuss You know he was teaching a boy one day how to throw Dan and John said it's simple Boy it goes across the ring twit, you know trips over his own feet because you said it was easy and John said no I said it's simple not easy and to me I would say the bulk of life is simple I do I honestly think that when I retired at 52 is you know as a high paid high school teacher, you know When people ask me what did you do and it's like? Well, what did your mom and dad tell you and they tell they say five things. Yeah, I did that What what you just when I was 21 I started saving for a time, you know I saved 10% at you know when I was making nine thousand year dollars a year As a full-time teacher four preps coaching three sports. I made nine thousand and saved 900. I mean You know, that's not a ton of money, but You know compound interest is a magical thing and I'm using this as an example obviously. Yeah But it's like, you know, it's the simple hard right and the simple hard. Yeah You know, what they'll joke about when's the best time to plant a fruit tree? Well, 10 years ago. John, it's the second best time. Well today, you know, it's It's just it's most of life truths Really aren't that complicated, you know I find that When you think you have a new idea it usually means you haven't read enough old books I just Okay, well they will see me right now. Yeah, yeah, okay, when I scroll up here Okay That's every strength and health magazine from about 1945-46 to an end of 1985 That's also muscular development magazine. That's also all kinds of Olympic stuff over here. I have a massive I mean, just a huge bookshelf and another bookshelf These books by the way are the translations of my books and other languages. I kind of think that's cool But it's very cool. So when someone says something to me It's not unusual for me to go back to John Jerome's wrestling and psychopedia To a straight-the-health magazine and say well, you I know you invented it But it was invented a lot sooner. I love break-in-tress. We're actually good friends what the hip thrust I was taught the hip thrust in 1984 to Olympic training center. We were taught this pelvic balance or pelvic core stuff that same week We were taught I think it was called Rhythmatic interval training exercise r-i-t Which now people are like invented everyone's invented all this stuff. It's been around You know if a deck any I mean sneaking up on Sneaking up on 40 years, you know Just those three examples Well, and you know how I mean you know have 40 years with the whistle, right as you're as one of your as one of your book says It's it's been 40 years now and across how many sports has it been now that because I obviously I know throwing is throwing is your main Is your is your main thing as a as a coach but as also there's been other sports in there as well. What all of you coached? Well American football High school wrestling I You know, as a strength coach. I mean, there's not a sport you wouldn't touch. Yeah, I was the chess moderator at school for a long time Which I thought was really Being the chess coach is a very insightful and helpful thing Um, in fact, I kind of miss some of the kids Dan Yeah, I was a sister whatever just great kids. They just loved it. We read the books and we work on things Um, so wrestling American football track and field Highland games obviously and then just support with a whole bunch of other sports Um, I don't I don't I'm really not comfortable. John, volleyball my god That's one of my favorite captures probably my favorite chapter in 40 years Of course, now it's what 43 years with the whistle. So yeah Nice. Yeah, well, so tell me about volleyball. Why is that why is that your why is that your favorite? I haven't had a chance to to digest the whole book yet, so I I'm I'm just getting started. I just I just stumbled upon it this week Sure. Well, I'm sitting them off as one day and my daughter Lindsay called me crying and she never cries So I knew this was an issue and in the book I it's a funny little thing I stick all all her words together in capital letters, you know Basically she says, you know, we have too many kids and so we need So now we're gonna have to have get another coach and have two teams Dan I'm sitting there and I'm like, yeah, then that terrible. Then I said they're asked oh That new coach is going to be me I didn't smart thing which I recommend to anybody anytime I I asked three of our varsity what volleyball girls and I said just tell me the three things I need to know as a volleyball coach I don't want to hear anything else Dan they said get the serve over and in number one you got to get the serve over it to protect the middle Dan't worry about the sidelines are the back line and number three. You got to play as a team. You got to be connected So one two three that's all I focused on We were terrible. We were St. Francis number two. So the joke was we're number two You know, which no one ever understood, but I thought it was hilarious I think that poking fun at a problem Does more than worrying about the problem itself You know if you have ugly uniforms make fun of your ugly uniforms, you know or for whatever, you know Dan it's a long story, but ultimately the big tournament came around Dan among the 40 or 50 schools or whatever was the teams We took third and the truth is there's no way in hell we could have won the thing Urban Myers wife The coach at Johnio State and Florida She had to be the Jacksonville Jaguars had coached from if news reports are to be believed We're lasting on She had a team made up of all club volleyball girls They don't and here's the thing that we battled them right to the end and the only thing is we caught them in the semi Versus the final we had taken second Dan here's the thing my little my little land of the misfit toys took third place Uh one girl had a She had an artificial not an artificial archette or heart transplant The two boys I had in my team were about the height of my belt I had one I had one athlete when that was Lindsay and but Our serves were always over in it we protected the middle we played as a team if something happened I would take a time out and I say what's going on? Carlos would always stay Number three coach we're not playing as a team that's true or also not protected in the middle and it was nice and and it was amazing to watch I That's funny because I didn't know most of the hand signals the officials were doing They didn't know the sport at all and I was just doing my best, uh, you know You know and god the parents we like so do you want us to bring gatorade and orange slices for what well, you know for halftime Um sure. I don't care. I don't Then the one parents like do you want me to set up the parents thing? What do you the parents gonna play? No, so we can and it's like oh my god The parents biggest concerns were orange slices Fudgicles and gatorade My biggest concern was getting the server over and in protect the middle and playing like a team As long as I stay focused on what I did at the end of the game they could go eat all the orange slices Then why I didn't care but I wanted to win those damn games and all of a sudden man Dan we We started win these games and People be up and finally we played our our own number one team and we just man Have them and that a boy had later played a vision once football and it was amazing You know it was good. We beat him, you know Because we followed those three things they're the keys Dan that's just my life lesson if you focus on the big stuff the little stuff will take care of itself Interesting I actually had my my college my college offensive line coach actually inverted that that That statement that was one of his mantras if you take care of all of the little things the big things will take care of himself Basically saying no detail is too small right and and we we focus on all same same thing just articulated in it in a in the inverse manner right was like The winds will happen if you focus on taking care of the the fundamentals first focus on blocking the guy in front of you Dan and don't worry about whether or not we score a touchdown. You just you know get your job done Right, who did you play for? I played for Luther college here in in decora iowa Okay, okay Mill 10 mill tendrickson was the name of my college offensive line coach and he went on to the Baltimore Ravens as a scout and now he's The vice president of football operations for the green Bay Packers, so he's He was the most demanding coach I have ever had in my life and I To no surprise at times did not enjoy playing for him but he told me in I think I had 2020 something career starts with with him and I got one good game from him out of out of all of those it was it was I got one good game that I played a good game Dan it was the game that I graded out like the lowest of my of my season But I was playing against a three-time all-american and I graded out at like 85% against a three-time all-american Dan that was the one time he told me I had a good game But I knew I earned that good game because because milk was if nothing else demanding But he got he got high high level performance out of us from that from that level of expectation of us Well, I look back to the best football coach in it. We did you ever use him blocking? Him no, yeah, I got him you got him Yeah Well, sometimes you know especially in the modern game you just don't know what you're going to see Yeah, and Sometimes it can be that simple Okay enough. That's good. That's good. That was nice. John, yeah Yeah, we had we had a lot of we had a lot of fun with our we ran a no-huddle offense Dan we would call our plays at the line of scrimmage which had different keywords and alternate words Dan we had hot words that changed kind of the meaning of what we were saying at the line of scrimmage We had a lot of fun with that because you would get you would get these guys that thought that they knew what the what the What the signals were and they would they would try and they were trying to guess or they thought that they knew and That was always a lot of fun But there were there were definitely times when you know by the end of the game You can only say Boise so many times before they realized that that means blast off the left side and that that's what's coming But our whole thing was we don't care We don't care if we you know that we're running blast off the left guard because you can't stop it Dan if and if you can because you know it's coming then we're not doing our job You're that? Yeah, that was that was that was quite a bit of fun. So Well, so how did you you know? How did how did you get into kettlebells? How did when did you first encounter kettlebells? I guess it's going to be my first question because you probably encountered them much earlier than than most of us So when did you first experience kettlebells? My my first time I had seen Them in strength and health magazine But the first time I really looked at them was In 1971 JK Doherty's book the the tracking field army book Dan they had all these Soviet pictures in there and they were throwing in kettlebells they were doing We were calling deficit deadlifts now with with kettlebells They were doing jumping deficit deadlifts with kettlebells They were throwing them They were doing various We would probably call kettlebell juggling now Dan that was the first time and then in 75 I'm pretty sure it was either 75 or 77 If my dates are wrong my apologies The USA USSR track meet was held either It was held in Berkeley and the Soviet hammer throwers were down at college to say a motel Dan they were throwing what we would now call more Puds or poods, okay? Those are those ones that you'll see in the track and field world It's a cement weight with a long loop on it Dan you do it for various throwing exercises and I watched them do it Dan I thought that was a secret to throwing far Dan then of course we kind of ignored them For a long time my Olympic lifted and didn't really need anything else Dan then around, oh I don't know when kettlebell kind of showed back up with John Ducaine Dan palmo The first time I actually used a kettlebell was at the national ultra weight pentathlon When one of my buddies is this got to be what, 202 over one Dan one of my buddies I've been staying around since 7 a.m. and hadn't thrown yet Because the meat was so poorly run and I mean that I'm not taking it back So he's helped me out and Randy was car Dan he showed me that a rudimentary swing Dan I thought holy cow, this is something interesting Dan then I had a big track meet down at University, California, Dan Diego Probably three in three 2003 Dan my buddy George Matthews Took me in the garage and showed me kettlebell snatches Dan he said he thought he thought the kettlebell snatch is probably one of the best exercises for a master thrower At the time I was still one to lift, he said, well actually I just started loaded carries But I was pro and then I went down to the very first kettlebell convention I won though, I know it took second in the weight for distance in the throw The six foot eight guy beat me Dan I got a 28 kilo kettlebell and that's what I used I used the 28 to prepare for the surf Dan so I did the hundred snatches with the 28 I felt like I'd be able to handle the 24 in a state of fatigue You know and I only had to do I think 84 or something like that at the time But I enjoyed it My feedback on the surf, which I took very seriously John Dan later told me it was actually was some really important feedback Dan I'm very proud I think I think maybe my little feedback along my attorney from a baton death march into an actual You know, instruction a weekend You know When I first got certified in Dan Diego teller plane went over You had to do 10 or 20 swings Well, we're right next to an airport so planes are coming in all the time and leaving Problem is the the person trying to instruct Never had a chance to finish a sentence Dan so the there was the learning environment was horrendous Dan every time we got into small groups Fortunately, I had Brett John who I think is an outstanding teacher and my heart bleeds for those people who didn't have Brett um He would say okay, okay Listen do this and that helped me immensely of course is an Olympic cluster. It's tough to go from kettlebell world into I probably yeah from the Olympic lifts because we do so much more That hinge we hinge into a squat which of course would be brutal with a kettlebell There's a few other things, but um Yeah, I so So I came back I called up my buddy over at Gill about 113 kettlebells and Outfitted my gym with kettlebells so we had a so we were doing the power lifts Olympic lifts power lifts Olympic lifts kettlebells tumbling calisthenics heard a work in a typical workout for high school team Um my kids I had a number of my students go on to kettlebell certs and many of them said you know Dan all day long I felt like I know all of this So that's that's a long story and then I I moved up quickly from um From participant to assistant to teen leader to senior kettlebell and then master very very quite quickly Right, you know, that was and yeah, I'm and I'm proud. I'm a master kettlebell instructor for both strong first in Um the rkc I've done I've done I've done workshops for both organizations and I and I enjoy it. I enjoy my time. I enjoy the people a lot um, I know a lot of GS people have done two GS competitions, but that's not my style. That's just not some I it's a sport and I don't It's a sport. So you have to kind of you know train it differently and I'm not yeah Right Yeah, it requires it requires a level of specificity because it because it is a sport I mean like anything like anything else if you if you want to be good at the sport You have to you have to train for it for the sport and that is I think that's the the biggest I think probably the biggest difference that I see between the two other than the obvious style differences that the the intention of strong first or hard style or you know The rkc style is is improved fitness and capability across across various disciplines not just specific to the kettlebell You know and gs is very specific to Get good at the sport. Yeah, and it's like when I'm When that's why I'm very specific when people ask me questions and podcasts Whatever forms. It's like Okay, what do you mean Dan almost everybody it seems like nearly every person the planet now is an expert in Brazilian jiu jitsu and it's like Dan. I want to do gs sport, you know, marathons and triathlons Dan you know, you're a boy sport. What do you think I should do for training program? You're gonna know fence, but by definition you're sucked across the board You're chasing too many rabbits there. We're rabbits, baby. Yeah, so that's Yeah, and I know I come off as an old It's just like when you answer the same How do you feel about simple and sinister So I'm gonna put a public service announcement out there to hopefully for for for anybody that doesn't know Dan has made this awesome tool called the workout generator go to dan john university Go to the workout generator and before you ask Dan a question of you know, I have this equipment this equipment in this goal What should I do go to his website and use the tool that he has programmed because you can literally go in and type in What equipment you have available what your goal is press a button and it will give you a program. It is awesome Dan and and it will save you a ton of time and hopefully it will save Dan a ton of time If you just use the tool that I'm sure he invested time and money Into helping to filter out the number of questions he gets about the the specific what program should I do Dan what's good about the generator is that you press the button you press that you have a suspension trainer You have a kettlebell. You have an avenue You want to train an hour a day five days a week you press a button and you're done It gives you mobility work it shows you the exercises it gives you reps and sets I thank for bringing that up. I am Dan we have to thank Brian because he's the ones when Brian first looked at the Brian Brian Walton When he first looked at my work, he said This guy is an algorithm This guy is a walking algorithm is weird because um It almost all my life. I I lived that way to the point that I actually have to work on not being that way With friends and family So I know that struggle As good as it is that I have the brain that works this way It's also a bit of a curse too I work in I work in data science consulting for uh my for my day job So I work with uh I work with some of the best and brightest PhDs in the world that write algorithms and do AI and Machine learning and things like that and I I know many people that have that same curse where it's like they can't shut it off It's it's it's very it's very challenging for them because they have a mind that works in a particular fashion and that's uh It's very powerful and it's very awesome and when unleashed in the right direction But uh it doesn't work so well with humans sometimes unfortunately So how how long did it how long did it take to to develop the workout generator? Well, I think I started working on it probably in 1972 I had a I can affect my journal right over there and probably show the fiction But I I drew a little human figure Dan then I tried to figure out okay If I do this exercise and then I put in squat and then I put this exercise incline bench press on the body parts Dan I was trying to figure out what I was trying to do uh 73 74 is what would be the best workout I could do during football season that would That would help me for track season wouldn't be greatly during the season What's you know trying to find the least I could do in my first attempt at minimum Dan when I did that just that first time I started realizing that You know If you do certain exercises, you can really not you don't have to do other You know, and that's hard and the problem is Dan, you know We're living a time and I do like Arnold Schwarzenegger very much I met him twice and I got great respectful But you know ever since the educational bodybuilder came out that we have what I call frankestine's monster training Arm day leg day, you know Does that work your lats? You know when I'll do be doing a snatch and some jackass will say does that work your lats? It's like well I don't and then yeah, I know I know this people who do training like frankestine's monster They never look like they actually weight training. It's like these I'll go online sometimes and I'll get these criticism about my work and some hundred and third the guy will post a picture He's 135 pounds and You know his best bench is a little less than my youngest daughter and this and he can't deadlift more than any Check that so my wife my daughter and both of my daughters can deadlift Well Lindsey deadlift at 350, but they can all deadlift 275 now having said that You would be stronger than my dog because it doesn't have a posable thumb So, you know, I have to be careful because mr. Black over there Is not holding up his end of the bargain in the wait Trust me. I've talked to you about it But pound for pound he's still probably stronger than that guy He's faster. That's a sure Dan there's a better sense of smell right brother So I am you brought up minimalism and I want to give you a chance to kind of explain what that is to people that aren't familiar with your work Because I think it's one of the you know, it's one of the great contributions that you've that you've Made to the world of strength and conditioning because to your point We have kind of this this world of overwhelm and maximalism and swipe workouts and you know if you want your booty to grow You got to hit it six different ways from seven different angles and yada yada yada and bands and hip thrusts and you know kickbacks and blah blah blah and You have articulated a philosophy that that is very different from that and actually works Well, I don't So I got a good book right behind you It's Pat Flynn's book on journalism and I like I like so generalism this idea that The toolkit you learned and learning how to play the piano will help you learn how to play the guitar Dan the lessons you learned from the guitar will help you in the wait room and the lessons you learn in the wait You got that so yeah, you try very hard as a generalist to use the same learning tools to To help support you here here and here Minimalism is a tough one for me because So there's minimalism like I like some of paddle stuff like I right now Being doing a fairly minimalist program on training twice a day a gentle listener don't don't write down and do them saying Doing something very specific. So at nine thirty people from all the world show up my house and we train Dan right now I'm doing heavy hands A lot of suspension trainer work for the for the you know the T's the wise the eyes the rows the stretches um Dan I'm doing a lot of overhead pressing because I'm doing the afternoon the 10,000 swing challenge So I'm swinging 500 times a day So for me my faith Do you mind if I jump back the 1974 and by all means I kind of proud of myself because The roots of everything I do come from that year I thought to myself of the reading the magazines and that if when I'm older like 63 for example all of them today If all I did was a limpic snatch and clean and press that would be a pretty w great working It would keep me young because you know the fast switch work and mobility work with the snatch and strong, you know the clean and press I got to tell you man So today I did swings and presses which basically is I would say a distance relative of those two, but pretty close. It's a hinge in a press So for me the great minimalist workouts would be a hinge Uh, by the way, I just posted an article on the university about Uh, he called it easy hypertrophy Dips and deep squats Um no Your mileage may vary, but if If you want to do a minimalist program dips and deep squats with the deep squats, you know, you're trying to get up to 100 100 reps Uh, with you, let me check that 50 reps with your body weight, okay Um, and very quickly 14 workouts Um, that's a problem, but you know, Pavel has power of the people where it's um Deadlift and press By the way, and I've said many times if those two exercises would have been rack deadlift and bench press None of us would ever sold a book ever again ever Uh, because everyone will do that program The first one was what bent press and kettlebell snatch Uh, naked warriors pistols and one arm pushups Um, those are minimalist programs when I was at Utah State my senior is bored You know, after all those years of lifting, you know, by that time was my 13th or 14th year in the weight room and I had been, I just recovered from a really serious issue Dan so all I did in my senior basically was snatch and power clean, ellipic snatch and power clean Dan coach mom who's this very famous throws coach said that I had the very best year in the history of Utah State, you know track and field so that's high praise and when people ask me didn't wait for him, I'd say Yeah, three days a week I snatch and I power clean Johne days I go for volume Wednesdays I go for load Fridays that day before the meet I go up to 80% for a single just so I get a little bit of nervous system Creek and you know, little snap and then that's it No, what do you really do? Well Because that was so big, you know, so good You know, it's 231 They how tall how tall are you? I'm just six foot. Okay So I'm not really What's weird though Dan is everyone So I'll post a picture with me with like I got a British basketball player for me to pro He's seven four and the two of us are staying like this But I did it in front of a door just your reference So many people wrote god, it just always thought you'd be so tall It's like dude, there's a door frame behind this He is clearly over the door frame by a lot like his hand Way over the door frame and I'm close to the damn thing too So yeah, I'm six foot, but I my junior senior year they water weight us and I was at 8.9% At about 231 But you know being Irish, you know that we don't have cuts so you know, you don't really look like you ever did anything I got a found a picture of the day when I was first with my wife and I'm standing on the rock and I'm As ripped as I've ever been, but I mean I just look smooth as glass You're not giving me a lot of hope for my cut Cuz I do I do am Irish Yeah, so we had a guy we had a person At Utah State African-American Water weighted 25% had six pack abs Well, cuz where he carried it now his life story isn't good because he had to deal with type 1 diabetes almost immediately out of college and some other things Lost the limb to it. I don't know how he's doing. That's been years since I saw him, but you know, so So a minimal program for a thrower could be now I would throw in like farmer walks or heavy bag carries now obviously but you know you don't If you've got stuff dialed in and you pick big movements, you don't need to do health-wide You know I remember when I was at my peak and As a lifter would be 91 91 was my best years a lifter Dan I was down. I was only doing six snatches of workout It took a hundred kilos 220 To be enough weight to drive me into a bottom position so 60 kilos I couldn't it wasn't enough to push him down Dan I would go to 131 35 for snatches and be done and people go that's it. It's like yeah, I just snatched 297 People don't have it don't have an it's one of those things unless you've been under that kind of weight I don't think people have an appreciation of how that feels and the You know the level at the level of effort it takes to move a bar at that weight at that speed for that distance You know, and that's a whole other thing like I try and articulate to people what was my flight often like distance Matt the distance you move the weight matters as much as the the weight itself Like that's part of the equation for total work Dan you know John, you know with my easy strength for Olympic lifting You know most of the workouts are three sets of two in the snatch and three singles in the cleaning jerk You lift five days a week and people say well, that's enough. I said well, that's 15 clean and jerks a week. That's 30 snatches Dan it's so but it's but I'm a big believer now repetition in the Olympic lifts Dan number one, never miss never fail ever and the rep getting that grease then groove and groove and groove and Just like that nervous system up so all it knows how to do is pop the bar into place That's all it knows how to do Dan then when you got it when you got it to let you know let the rubber band go It goes, yeah, so when you say when you say never miss you mean If you're if you're supposed to get three reps in the workout you get three reps even if that means you have to drop weight or Yes, yes drop weight Okay, uh that was a tough lesson I don't think I've ever been hurt on a make All my injuries come from this is So it's not just that though Tommy come over the great leftor you know, he believed that if you missed it took three perfect reps to undo the miss I'm to the point that I think it takes 60 Wow Literally pull that out but but but the you know the order of magnitude This is the point right like that that it takes it takes so much extra so much more work to make up for one bad miss from a Neural from a neural patterning and training perspective and maybe even injured perspective too So you want to just keep popping that weight on pop that weight on pop snap, you know You know Now I also believe in You okay, so this is what I do with wide receivers for example if a wide receiver gets dropped by this, you know, which happens In practice, I'll have them catch the ball and purposely drop it Catch the ball and drop it catch the ball and drop it catch the ball drop So that they own the dropping, but that's it Okay, gentlemen. That's a coaching tweak I wouldn't do it in the weight room But if you have someone who misses free throws I would get them exhausted and have them shoot free throws get them used to being exhausted and shoot free throws You know, you know Really dial up the tension in the rouse Because that's people don't miss free throws when they're you know hanging around their buddy talking about girls They miss it with one second left in the go and one and one yeah Dan so you're you're talking about the the the generalism principle and that's You know and you're talking about how like music for example helps you get better at certain things and that That is something that my vocal coach when I was when I was in high school or even before high school junior high school When I was I would get nervous before I would sing and it would it would affect my ability to hit the first note Dan it was because my heart rate was up and you're you're nervous and your diaphragms a little bit more More spastic and so what would he do have me do jumping jacks and pushups before before we started our lesson So that I would get in the arousal state and I would be a little bit out of breath Dan I would be a little my heart rate would be up and then I would have to sing and then the next time I had to sing in public I hit the first note without any problem I was I was right on pitch right it's that same you know that same that same concept right of generalism I have an entire book dedicated what you just said it's called man Dan what I try to do is line up an athlete's physical tension mental arousal and heart rate with what optimal performance should be So you know as a discus or a scale of one to ten My physical tension in my arousal probably should only be about four Dan my heart rate should be in the 90s But if I meant 71 and at the nationals and I had a terrible performance The mistake I made is I didn't have my heart rate at 95 where I am when I'm throwing my best at training Uh, if if my if if they play the star-spangled banner and they have all the jets go ahead and then they have You know, they have some little girl who has some terrible disease come out and she wishes is all luck and win win for the gipper That'll shoot my arousal level one Dan I have to consciously bring my I can't be thinking I'm representing that stage in the flag and You know every you know every American back home and I've got to be go okay. I'm gonna take three throws in the discus and then I'm gonna take three more So would you so would you uh when you when you think about a state a big stage performance You you it seems like your philosophy would be more you treat it as just as just another three throws Like it's not it's it's you don't want to or do you or do you acknowledge that it is the biggest stage of your career and accept that fact mentally But try and maintain your arousal level at the same level that you normally perform at for any other It's just another step into the ring for for a meat. That's a tough that's a tough needle to thread I got two good answers for you. Number one the old uh Dan Martin answer Dan he's to say buy the album buy the book There's a video of me winning the national championship online When I get in the ring I'm behind by uh two centimeters basically one Then when I get in the back of the ring I stop from on and you can clearly see me smile Dan people said well, why did you smile and I said because I was about to win the national championship How did you know because I had put myself in this place so many thousands of times That it was I find here I am Dan swung the discus picked up my right foot lasted the throw one by 17 feet Having been checked understanding so it is something So that's why the book is called now you just had the worst performance your life joy. I'll walk up to you and I'll say well now So you'll say well, I'm gonna quit. I hate this. Okay fine It's been just a joy. I want to come back next year. Okay, let's talk in the first thing I would say is So what was it? What was your tension? Well the moment the official judge the whatever Johnce they kicked the ball off I just went for or whatever it is yeah very often people That's why I'm not a big fan of getting in front of the camera and jumping up and down for a football game with a bunch of idiots Is you're raising your rouse? You'll notice usually it's backups I know drew breezes to do it earlier this career but then do it anymore Dan when he did it did it in jail Because you don't want your quarterback having high arousal Because he has to go from wide to narrow narrow to wide focus so quickly Dan and all arousal, you know, you don't want your quarterback getting into a fight not because he's not tough But because that will ruin his arousal for the next day Yeah and so So and then on physical tension If you're too tight, we I can have you put on more clothes and literally shake it out If you're too loose, I'll throw a bucket of water You know or you know or just Tons of ways to raise raise tension. Yeah, it's not that's rarely the it's funny Notice my toolkit gets a little soft about raising because Lower because most people that So and if of course of your heart rates at 70 and you're supposed to be at 95 like you said you go do some jumping jacks You do a couple of inspirations. Boom. There you are heart rates at 95 Dan oddly your tension arousal level will probably adjust back with it. So I make a little triangle like this This is a rousal So this is a rousal 0 to 10 1 to 10 here's tension physical tension Johne to 10 and then there's heart rate and what you want to be is where you need to be for ult for optimal performance now for For a powerlifter. I mean, you're probing it. You're gonna probably be real hot in the deadlift You're gonna be right at the top there Yeah, we eat and chalk and get your face That's why you got people slapping you in the face and you're hitting that ammonia and you're like anything you can't Distribulate the central nervous system when you you know, it's last play of the game. You do run out and slap your kicker's face Why oh depends on if he makes it or not John, okay Dan the mirror point that people Why do you ice the kicker? Yeah, the the when you say that most people go You know, wow, I never thought of that. I'm like So in other words the key To outstanding performance you just kind of thought would just happen because you're in the weight room doing skull crushers Dan my guys are out in the field and we're literally practicing high high performance In throwing we so let's give when I used to coach football we had a great draw. I loved it called I think I got it from Jimmy John Uh, it was called third and 15 you would run a third and 15 If you didn't get it you run the pun team on they pun Then you'd have third and 15 do again and my assistant coaches hated it and it's like no, I want to practice I want the quarterback to think it's okay To have the punter come on the field Dan't throw a pick Dan't take a stupid loss Dan if we do get the first down that's amazing third and 15 high schools. Yeah, it's a very low probability of conversion So but but if you can get to fourth and five Uh, like the game that maybe you give you a chance or send your punter out send your punter out make sure the pun team has 11 people good snap good pun win-win-win So you have to practice in team sports those transitional moments that are win-win-wins that you might not even Missing on third and 15 in the first quarter is fine It's fine. Getting the punter off is great Uh, especially as the good point um situational things um You missed your opener. Uh, what sports are you doing right now? Uh me just kettlebell sport is is all in is all in coaching and all in practicing right now But I I've done rugby football. I've I'm a lot like you. I've coached a lot of different things just not nearly as long So you know say like you're uh You're you're an Olympic lifter and for whatever reason your first clean and jerk goes behind your head Dan now you have to retake the lift and you have two minutes now to do it well It's too late to have the discussion on what do you mean that discussion on Lifting within two minutes of very heavy lift had to have happened six seven eight weeks before The mental side of it the arousal side of it The catch your breath side of it, you know your heart rates fine. You just did a clincher But you know, you want to bring it down you want to uh You know, you you want to know as a coach what to say to the athlete You know, here's what I would usually say We've practiced this. We've worked on this. Hey, that's you never lose them out the back You know, it was it was i'm gonna go check the oh I went out and I checked the platform. There was a slick spot. I fixed it. I'm making all this up For the slick spot You'll be fine kid'll go up there make the damn lift Dan we move on Yeah, but you can't wait until the world championships to practice arousal tension Yeah That's that's one of the thing I love In the visualization in the visualization world one of the things that I that I learned fairly early on that I love is I stopped visualizing perfect sets. I stopped visualizing perfect games Um are not only visualizing perfect sets and only visualizing perfect games I started visualizing. Where is it going to get hard Dan mentally preparing myself for licking kettlebell sport You know, I call minute seven the death minute because you know 80% of people that fail in a kettlebell sport set fail minute seven to eight Because it's where you know the central nervous system is is Taxed and the anaerobic threshold has been hit and you've been over anaerobic threshold for too long Dan the brain starts to scream at you. Hey put these things down. They're too heavy. They're too heavy You know, and that's where most people fail So this 10,000 swing challenge. I tell her but it's week three Workouts 11 12 13 14 15 exact same place where you There's something hard about getting three quarters the way through anything. Yeah Yeah, and and more house the great UCLA Um The person he started basically we call human performance. It's more house started. He called something and spurred productivity Everybody's good at the end Everybody's world champion the last 100 meters of marathon All of a sudden all that energy came back go back to mile 2019 2021 Dan that's that's where things change interesting you see the same thing too Yeah, and I see yeah, and I see it across I see it you're right It's the and we've we've actually talked about that we see it across events with even within kettlebell sport We've always said like it doesn't seem to matter if it's a 30 if it's a 30-minute set and I'm mentally prepared for a 30-minute set like 20 25 minutes in is when it really gets hard But if I'm doing just a 10-minute set it's like oh minute seven is when my brain's you know, it's always you're right It's always at that kind of like three quarters of the way through like mentally you you framed it up as I'm gonna go for this long Dan I'm gonna do this thing and at the three-quarter point is when it always seems to get mentally hard It's a really really interesting and Dan actually I would if I were you I would circle that part of our conversation and Keep your eyes open for that when you hear it with with every other sport and just keep just keep watering Fertilizing this concept because I think you have a really good either article or our book In this insight and I would even say I mean, what's the toughest time of the career? You know, I don't know what it's like to retire. You know I mean I retired. He's just pivoted to it to working on other things Like uh, yeah, I don't know how's gonna make this much money now. I wouldn't work But But you're right. I mean I'll be around You know, I know a lot of many of my teacher friends. I'm at that age where a lot of them are Starting to think about retirement and it's fascinating because You you begin to see that Okay, this year, you know, here you got a teacher 40 years and and in their last two years is when they Decided to do this leap into this very insightful thing and like why didn't you do that? 20 years ago because you like you said they It was three quarters the way through why you know, you know It's that endspurt that endspurt is there even on the even on the scale of a 40-year career. It's that endspurt Yeah, that's very interesting. I like that. I can give you about Severing moments, okay? Yep. That's yeah, that's the time time we had blocked I was I was just gonna say I want to be respectful of your time I love in your in your email signature. You have like your a lot of your life lessons kind of distilled Down to just a few sentences. I love that. I love that signature and and one of them is one of them is reread great books Dan you are you are you are a professor and you're you know, but somebody who's written a ton of books So what what great books do you find yourself going back to like what are the great books that you reread often? Well, I have a thing a weekly newsletter called wandering weights it in the wandering weights I'm going through this book the sword and stone paragraph by paragraph and adding insights. I explained certain words I explained how in some cases what I what it was like to read is at 13 versus little 63 Dan let me give you the modern classics that I would I would say I'm a little bit. I'm a big believer that the sword and the stone dune the godfather and McCarthy's chromat McCarthy's book the road Those would be the four books that Centuries from now will still be banging around You can disagree with any of them. You can add any a lot. But for me, that's my humble Humble If you want to summarize all of human condition I say read Genesis 4 and Luke 24 Luke 24 is the the journey to amaze the walk to amaze. I think it's the most brilliant way to look at teaching parenting any any you can think of Genesis 4 is the great discussion on what it means to be humans can't enable I love the epic a Gilgamesh which precedes the Bible about maybe even as much as a thousand plus years Gilgamesh famously is told by the ale wife look at the child that is holding your hand These things alone are concerned man. I mean by god You just don't do better. You just don't as I think about the books uh, well, obviously, you know Fortunately, I work out with Mike Warren Brown We might be the most well-read person I've ever met so our ability to discuss You know anything is good You know, well, you know I like dog cutie part one and a hate part two and he argues I should read it again No, I didn't like it My wife and I would catch her in the rye she loves catcher in the rye and I hate that. I can't stand it Dan't stand it Rich kid having a bad day what life So When when I got back from the Middle East I picked up I was not doing well picked up a liver parasite Lost 40 pounds in two weeks. I wasn't doing well Dan what I did was interesting that's I as I contacted the great book Society of Chicago and then I bought The great books later. I bought the Harvard five-foot shelf of books and I started their Mortimer Outlurs 15 minutes a day program So I read by myself the brothers care mom's off, which I still think is one of the greatest books of all time Obviously, I've read the I've got the only out of city or 100 different copies of that So for me So for me, I'm a big fail by the way, you know when you're in middle of the Odyssey What does the Ulysses do he throws the discus and and the only Olympic sport mentioned by name of the Bible the discus So that's why it's it's it's it's only it comes down to three things. That's what my college coach showed me. It's height The angle of release and the speed of release those those are those are the three things. I wanted out speed of release He said get taller Yeah, I can't work on that one coach. Sorry You know and I when I do bump into well, I'm just reading I really I think I mentioned Derek Silver's book It's like get what you want or something like that by the way It is he's an entrepreneur had a thing called cd baby Did great is his little book is just wonderful But when I read the book at the end he says, you know, let me know what you think. They emailed him. He emails me back Dan he fanboys me says he loves my work. It was just kind of a Cute little moment where here on fanboy and some of the fanboy in the back. Wow. I mean, we can we can go through that We can go through life over here. Well, my wife is a Hemingway. So obviously you got to love Hemingway in the zone Yeah, Sherlock Holmes. I see over there Sadly most of the books up here are You know It's not as sexy as the other ones, but for me Just There is a book and for the listeners if if you don't even want to read the books, but you want to try them out David Denby D E N B Y wrote a book called great books He went back to Columbia College as an adult Dan he re-took the camp of Western civilization You know when you give children Jacob. Yep. Yep. I have two. I've got a six-year-old and a four-and-a-half-year-old So there's a part of a book of Genesis Where Abraham was asked to sacrifice his Yep, you read it as an eighth grader like give me the next chapter when you read it as a parent Great big big ask When you read King Layers at 19-year-old you're like okay crazy dead so move on When you read King Layer and your My case my mom and dad have been dead for a long long time 40 plus years and But I'm dealing with other friends and family members who are Parents are going through some issues When you read King Layer Dan it's personal Here's the funny thing when I'm trying to get across Shakespeare didn't change You and I changed yeah When you read the epic of Gilgamesh is a ninth grader in my class in my theology class You'd be like look at the child's hoarding hand. What is your pervert? When you read it with a six-year-old and a four-year-old you're like Okay Okay, this this poem is singing to me over several millennia and it's still true So when I say reread great books the author didn't change You changed I love that yeah, that's a great perspective There there are and I struggle with I don't circle back to enough stuff I reread a lot of philosophers But I don't go back to up to especially not especially non-fiction books that I read because I'm always trying to acquire What's the new shiny, you know, what's the next new shiny book and you know like you you know Just me you're walking with me I don't say I was perfect Yeah Well as somebody who who writes books I'm sure you don't want to discourage people from buying new from buying new books either but It is nice though when I do a podcast or when I write a book many people comment on how I I Prove things that are in it's it's a bit of an honor that you and I have in this conversation here There are there isn't a listener or two That are actually really hit by this part of the conversation not five sets of two You know, and that's to me Uh, would you mind reading off to have it in front of you read the whole thing out? Make a difference live Love laugh balance work rest play and pray enjoy beauty and solitude Sleep soundly drink water eat veggies and protein walk Where your seatbelt don't smoke floss your teeth Put weights overhead pick weights up off the floor carry weights reread great books say thank you 50 words six decades Well done sir That is uh, that is not easy to do Yeah, I've written there's a few things I've looked over in my career I wrote a 10-year thing for bodybuilding.com on John 9-11 and I thought that was pretty good But I there's a couple of things that I'm like Yeah, it's pretty good, but That Particular thing this thing I'm most proud of because it's all bite-sized Hmm, and it's I get it's it's it's simple to a fault But argue with me with any of those yeah I love it. They're all they're all good. That's why that's why I brought it up because I read that and I was like Well, that's fantastic He managed to saw he managed to sum up all of his all of his best all of his best stuff into an email signature Like all of the things that he would probably tell his kids or does tell his kids You know, like those are those who want to see when I send it to a business. I'll send an email to like my Insurance or something like that. I'll get a little notes on I'll get like a Wow, thank you for sharing that with me. They don't know that it's just a You know cut and paste, you know Well Dan, are we gonna do this again? I would love to have you again anytime. I would I would love to if you if you've got the time I'd love to have you again. There's plenty more knowledge in there that I'm happy to talk to you again I'm a little tight on time this evening There's a understands the football game tonight. Yeah, that's what they say to my house So I have to leave the loft. I have to leave the Dan John University corporate I Well, Dan. Thank you so much for for your time and I do truly appreciate you taking the time I've really enjoyed the conversation. I look forward to having you on again sometime. Thank you so much Let me know and let's do okay awesome. Thank you so much. Bye. Have a good night Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright If you have a question, please email me at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club at gmail.com Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club on Twitter at TCKB Club online at twincitieskettlebellclub.com and please help us grow our reach and give us a review on Apple Podcasts Spotify Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts until next time