Why You Can't Stick to Your Diet | Mike Milner creator of Neurotype Training

Welcome to the platform podcast where we talk to coaches athletes experts and real people to learn about their Approaches to training nutrition mindset and much more. I'm your host Jordan Kunde-Wright founder and head coach of the Twinsitties Kettlebell Club And I'm on a mission to help others build sustainable healthy lifestyles My guest this week is Mike Milner founder and CEO of peak optimization performance and in this episode we get into his background A little bit about neuro type training as well as what neuro type training is and how it can help you be successful in sticking to a diet and losing weight in a sustainable long-term manner. This is an incredibly fun conversation. Mike is very knowledgeable and we nerd out super hard on psychology The interaction between your neurotransmitters and training style as well as diet and there's just a ton in here I could have talked to Mike for hours, but only got him for an hour, but it was such a great conversation. I really hope you enjoyed it And I want to take a second to say thank you I'm incredibly grateful that you listen to this podcast if you haven't already Please be sure to leave a rating and review of the platform podcast in your app of choice and support my work by supporting our sponsors Who's affiliate links you'll find in the episode notes and if you want to step on to the platform in competing kettlebell sport Please reach out to me. I help athletes of all levels reach their goals without wasting time Using my integrated online coaching approach You can follow me on Instagram Facebook and YouTube Twinsidys kettlebell club or email me at twinsidys kettlebell club at gmail.com Now let's step under the platform with Mike Milner. All right Welcome into this week's episode of the platform podcast my guest this week is Mike Milner He is the CEO and founder of peak optimization performance and the creator of the neuro type diet Which I am actually in the middle of a six week neuro type challenge and my my nutrition coach Samantha Burr is a pop certified Nutrition coach, so we're gonna talk a little bit about that that neuro typing thing But Mike, thank you so much for for coming on today. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here So for for background before we get into what neuro typing is let's let's learn a little bit about who Mike Milner is and And kind of what your what your journey was to get to this point because I know a little bit about your backstory But people who don't know you you know, let's let's learn a little bit about what the Mike Milner origin story is can you tell us about that? Yeah, for sure, so I grew up an athlete So I played sports my whole life Just as young as I can remember all the way up through high school and college and never really had to worry about Fitness nutrition. It was just it was all about sports. I literally played anything That you could think of and that was that was my life for a long time Until organized sports ended and I found myself for the first time in my life Significantly overweight and it was one of those things that while it happened progressively It felt like it was an overnight change because again Like paying attention to nutrition was just never something that was in the realm of my thought process It just I was fortunate enough because I was an athlete and always playing sports Whether it was pickup basketball Whether it was just like you know intramural leagues or in high school anything that I could do to stay active I just love sports so After that ended I had picked up a lot of typical college type habits Eating and drinking like an asshole And that continued but the activity didn't so I remember like going to the bathroom one day and then looking in the mirror and being like holy shit Who are you? Who is this person that's looking back at me? And that was like the first moment where my whole identity was kind of rattled to my core because I had identified as an athlete All of my friends my social circle like that was how I identified was how I fit in and like kind of my whole purpose So now I'm sitting here at like 250 pounds I don't know how much I actually weighed because I didn't I didn't have the courage to weigh myself until I started working on weight loss So I know that I'm feeling But I sat on the scale it was like 250 so I was probably even higher than that But the problem was I did not feel comfortable seeing anybody any of my old friends from high school family members I just The stories in my mind were like everyone's gonna be like what happened to you? How did you let yourself go like this and I just it like really shook me to my core so that was the first moment of like well in order to fit in I need to lose a bunch of weight If I'm gonna get back on a basketball court, I need to lose a bunch of weight If I'm gonna go see my friends, I need to lose a bunch of weight and my thought process was I don't want to delay that I want to get back to being social and seeing my friends and playing again So let's do this as fast as humanly possible Which led me down the rabbit hole of of course very restrictive eating and excessive amounts of cardio And that was just what I assumed to be the fastest way to get there And while it quote unquote worked because I did lose weight quickly That led me down the path of the kind of diet hamster wheel of gaining and losing and gaining and losing And really spinning my wheels for a long time And it was a lot of mistakes along the way and doing things the wrong way and damaging You know my metabolism and my relationship with food and Suffering from disorder eating and just having body dysmorphia and pretty much everything that you could imagine going wrong Through that process which was a long process until I finally Figured things out a little bit. So it was kind of one step at a time I learned the strength training part of it And then I started to piece some things together with nutrition Although nutrition was kind of the thing that alluded me for so long So that's really where I found my passion because I saw so many other people suffering From the same thing that I was like they were showing up to the gym every single day But their bodies weren't changing and they were gaining and losing just like I was So that was like the first moment where I started connecting the dots like know what nutrition plays a huge role And then what we're trying to accomplish when it comes to sustainable body composition change And so even with that even once I piece some things together with nutrition And I started coaching people and realized that like that was my life's passion This is what I wanted to do to really fulfill my purpose It's still there was a lot of missing pieces and Neurosyping was actually the thing that finally was like the last puzzle piece where it all kind of made sense for me And then I've been able to kind of go on and have a very successful nutrition coaching company and here we are today Nice nice. So There's a lot there's a lot in there. There's a lot in there. I'm going to I'm going to pull on a couple of threads I want I want to hear first a little bit more about You talked about you talked about your relationship with food and some disordered eating Patterns and that's part of my story too and that's you know That's that's something I feel like a lot of people go through and don't really talk a lot about especially among men You don't hear it as much among men like admitting that yeah, I had a fucked up relationship with food And I did some some some crazy things to talk a little bit about that like what what happened what happened with you And how did you how did you deal with that? Yeah, yeah, it's a good question So it was it was another thing that happened progressively but also in my mind it felt like it happened suddenly the first Diet that I tried which is pretty funny and this is just uh, you know Random and like kind of gives you insight into where my thought process was at the time So I bought a piece of like cardio equipment that was just going to sit in my apartment So I could literally just do like two hours of cardio every single day and like watch TV or whatever and just like Be miserable while I'm doing it And the manual of that cardio equipment the back page had this like sample Diet that's like if you're trying to lose weight Follow this diet and I was like oh perfect. I'm trying to lose weight Let me follow this thing it was like 800 calories and it was kind of like a meal plan And then they're like big thing was like make sure you drink Freezing cold water all throughout the day because it speeds up your metabolism It puts you in fat burning mode and it's like all this nonsense So I'm sitting at the temperature of the water is critical. It has to be ice cold ice cold Yeah, yep, so I'm there like I'm going to work with like my my my water I'm putting it in the freezer I'm like making sure that I take it out when it's when it's just before it's frozen like all the stuff And it was like legit like 1200 calories and then So that was like the first time where I started to make the connection of like less is better But then I so I lost a bunch of weight doing that obviously being a 200 and some pound man at the time Eating 1200 calories. It's pretty hard not to lose weight But of course, it's very easy for a period of time right right and so then once it becomes unsustainable Then you gain the weight back pretty quickly. So that's what happened for me And then the the real turning point was I did a challenge at a gym that I was going to at the time and It was a six week challenge and I got a list of foods that was like Here's the food here are the foods that you can eat and here are the foods that you can't eat I remember going to the grocery store and this was like the first time that I had really started to pay attention to food quality Because with the other program is Larry just a meal plan it was like by this this so it was like Just eat these foods. There is no like good or bad. It was just I was falling a strict meal plan But this other one was like you can pick what you want to eat But it has to be from this list and avoid the good foods the bad foods right So I'm at the I'm at the grocery store and I'm thinking of some stuff that in my mind is healthy like I'm like, oh cool. So I can start eating fruit like apples I really like apples and then I look on the list and there's apples on the don't eat lists and I'm like, oh that's strange or like carrots We're on the don't eat list and like I'm totally like my mind is just in a million different directions right now Like assuming that these foods are good for me and now I'm being told that they're not so I'm like all right, well, I'm just going to follow exactly what this says and so I get you know all my quote-unquote good foods and What happened was through that program? I got very lean and like very lean And almost to the point of like if the funny part about this is as I was getting leaner It was never good enough So I remember thinking like all right. I had this goal of 200 pounds I hit 200 pounds I had this then I moved the goalpost back. It was 190. I hit 190 Then I moved the goalpost back. It was 180. I hit 180 and I keep this and it's never good enough. Never good enough All of a sudden I end up at like 165 And when I look at those pictures, it's it's actually hard to see because I have like I'm just I'm like amaciated. I don't I don't look healthy and because I wasn't but so inevitably Same thing happens. I have like a you know a kind of a binge session I gained a bunch of weight back and for me was like oh, I started eating the bad foods That's why I gained the weight back So now I'm associated with all those apples and carrots It's like okay, I got a stick to these so I remember becoming obsessed with I can't like saying these words to myself I can't eat anything that's not on this like approved list So it was like an orthorexia type of And that was representation. Okay, the way that it manifested itself for me was I would skip out on on social events. I wouldn't go out with my friends If it was like a family dinner and I knew that there was going to be foods there I would just say that I was sick. I couldn't make it I remember going out like the times where I couldn't avoid it and I had to go Whatever to like a lunch or something I would be that guy who's like I want to salad. I don't want you to cook the chicken and any oil or butter I don't want any croutons or anything other than just like the raw vegetables and the grilled chicken And no dressing and that was it and so So you must have been a blast to hang out with super fun super fun So My sister is actually the a licensed therapist who specializes in eating disorders And she sat me down one day and was like have you ever heard of orthorexia and I was like no She was like you should look into it because I think that you might have it And I got all defensive. I didn't even know what it was like. I don't have orthorexia already talking about and I would get like I'm just trying to be healthy like why can't you support me? I'm just trying to be healthy I don't understand why this is a problem and I get all mad whatever and then I start to look into it and I was like oh shit That's that's definitely what I used to read you start reading the description in the DSM for it. You're like You're like yep check check check So um that was and so was the disordered relationship with food was Labeling foods is good versus bad feeling guilty for eating certain foods Thinking that I had to only eat clean foods for whatever that meant for me You know skipping out on social events missing out on on life just for the sake of hitting my my quote unquote the old plan A lot of that stuff, you know my my body image too like I said no matter how lean I got it was never good enough Body dysmorphia. So like I'm sitting there like 165 pounds and being like I'm still fat So yeah a lot of different ways that that showed up for me Wow Yeah, so I mean good on your sister for you know, I'm how fortunate for you right to have somebody like in your family That that specializes specifically in that and good on your sister for having a loving conversation with you about that But how did so how did you how did you go about addressing that? Yeah, so um I so then I actually went on like the other end of the spectrum because It was one of those moments where you realized like What kind of like you mentioned like I'm zero fun and as somebody that I I love to be social. I love to hang out with my friends I'd love to just like travel and do different things and experience the world and now I'm sitting here like missing out on this stuff And it was more so of like the the FOMO of like I'm not able to do these things and then I was like do I really I don't want this to be my reality So I started looking in and like researching as much as I possibly could and this was really where I was like I should Rather than listening to somebody who was just telling me like some random person who just gave me a food list Like why don't I actually educate myself outside of this just one source and that was where I like poured myself I have a very obsessive Personality so when I like latch onto something I have to learn it inside out backwards forwards And that was what I did I can relate to So that was where I started be like okay I've definitely been doing things wrong. I need to take a different approach I actually went and like kind of the pendulum swung hard in the other direction was like Not only am I not going to eat quote-unquote clean, but I'm going to follow the IIFYM if it fits your macros approach And I'm going to show everyone that I can get shredded eating donuts and pop tarts and you know whatever else I want to you know Yeah, it fits the macros. It doesn't matter. Your body doesn't know the difference between a pop tart and an apple Right, and then again, it was like I actually I started to get you know I was building muscle I was getting leaner. I was but I felt like crap I had like you know I was you have like anti-orthorexia I don't even know what you would call that my like my gut health was a mess my digestion was a mess I like my Just like brain fog Clarity all that stuff, but it didn't matter because I was you know I was seeing physical progress and look at me I can eat donuts and still get abs and so it was like all right first the pendulum was hard one way Then it swung in the other direction and eventually I had to be like this is ridiculous There needs to be a middle ground here. I know That this is not sustainable and so eventually I found my way out of that that hole Wow, that's Quite a journey, man. That's that's that's awesome. And so now but now I mean you took that obviously and That was probably I'm assuming some of the motivation for like creating the neuro typing plan and and And going going to fall on down that rabbit hole of like how can I teach how can I how can I save other people from going through the pain that that you experienced Like trying to trying to find the right way to do it So tell us a little bit about how how neuro typing came to be and where where that research or originated and and how you started creating this program How long did it take you? Yeah, yeah, definitely so there was a couple things that I noticed first was the challenge that I did that six week challenge where I got that food list I was still going to that gym and I actually started to train other people like when I was originally a personal trainer Started working there and the challenge was like a consistent thing that was happening And it was the same people that were signing up and it was the same people that were losing 20 pounds and then gaining it back And then signing up for the next challenge and then losing 20 and gaining it back And I was like something's not right here. There's there's definitely a disconnect And that was really where you know once I found more of a balanced approach With like macros and food quality and just like understanding the basics I really that was when I was like okay I need to focus on my passion, which is the nutrition side of things So I started working as a nutrition coach for another company and What I so kind of like the first Time that I had a client. This was like right before I got hired by this other company And I was just like you know brand new coach I wanted to see if I actually knew what I was doing So I had my first client from the gym that was like I need help with nutrition I was like perfect like I just got certified. I'm going to help you out. I'm going to give you a macro plan And she got so like she was eating under eating and we got her calories up started tracking macros and she was just like hyper responder Like abbed up in like weeks. It was just crazy. And I was like this is so easy. This is so easy Like it's just a I can get anyone shredded just give him a good macro plan. So so then other this other group of girls that are women at the gym They see the results from from my first client or like we need your help too I'm like yeah come on like this is this is simple and like none of them got results That's like okay. It's back to the drawing board So I realized that it was more than just macros like macros are a great tool It's just one tool in the toolbox But what I noticed with the others it's like well first of all not all of them were responding to Reverse dieting and not all of them were even consistent with their macros Anyway, I start working for this other company and this was like a big macro coaching company and they had thousands and thousands of clients And it was all just like a macro formula Delivered through an app and it was like you get your macros follow the plan and like the coaching was just like Check in look at the app if they're hitting their macros are they making progress if they're you know And if they are don't change anything if they're not making progress and they're not hitting their macros Just tell them to hit their macros like there wasn't real coaching involved And I saw a lot of like Right we're talking about thousands of data points like looking You know, we had these like back end tools from the app and you could like legitimately look at thousands and thousands of data points and see that like 99% of the people who want weight loss are gaining weight and and it's like the company line is just hit your macros And I'm like that was really where it was like a whole paradigm shattering moment like if it was just that simple then why is everybody struggling? So I that was really where I ended up finding neuro typing because For me like I told you my sister's a psychologist psychology is a is kind of like in our family bloodline From like my mom my sister my aunt like it's just it's in our genes So that's always been a passion of mine and it was like is it or is it in your nurture? It's in my my nature and my nurture I studied psychology and sociology and in college So it's this is a passion point for me too. I'm sorry to interrupt. Oh, no, I love it So that was one of those things where I was like I've spent so much time and by the way throughout this process I probably accumulated like a dozen Nutrition coaching certifications because it was like I always thought I'm missing something like if macros don't work It must be something just get one if I can just find that one more thing I need to learn Exactly and that one more thing was the psychology of it is way more important I shouldn't say way more important because physiology of course plays a role But it doesn't do you much good to have the perfect macro formula if you can't adhere to if you can't sustain it So that was where I was like okay, there has to be something that's going on psychologically why Consistency is is easier for some and more difficult for others or the same plan doesn't work for two different people And like what's going on here, you know between the ears? What's going on upstairs? And so that was when I started focusing more on the psychology side of things I came across Christian Dibito who was one of my early mentors and So he was in an early mentee of Charles Poliquin who started to piece together the role of neurotransmitters in training So Charles had a lot of Athletes that he worked with and he had a lot of athletes that's that's that's an understatement of this entry there For people that don't know Charles Poliquin is like one of the one of the greatest strength and conditioning coaches of all time A bunch of Olympic gold medalists and a bunch of Olympic qualifiers like he was a top top top notch Strength and conditioning sport and and had a ton of Research and theories and hypotheses he was a different thinker and he tested a lot of those hypotheses and really changed the way we think about Strength and conditioning and in a lot of areas So just a some backstory for people that aren't familiar with who Charles Poliquin is Yeah, absolutely and he Started to piece together like neurotransmitters play role He he had some theories that people that rubbed people the wrong way like the whole earn your carbs approach But the reason was he had these high performing athletes who were more dopamine dominant and we can get into like the Neuro type in concept But he's working with people who don't need as many carbs They they handle stress better their elite athletes So he started to piece together like there's something going on here with The the style of training and the neurotransmitter balance that's going on and he and then Christian Took that and kind of took it one step further and was like yes But there's more than just one type of of like prototype athlete. There's you know many different profiles and different You know everyone has their own kind of unique neurochemical balance that's going on And we can look at other neurotransmitters outside of just dopamine We can look at things like adrenaline. We can look at acetylcholine We can look at glutamate we can look at GABA serotonin And these are all going to play different roles in the brain and based off of that We can kind of get an idea of how to You know create the proper training protocol that's going to optimize your your nature Or your your kind of brain chemistry So I studied under Christian He is one of the best like if you want to build muscle and perform better He's one of the best in the business And his passion was never really a nutrition and that was my passion I was like okay Well, if it makes sense on the training side of things and if what we eat literally becomes what we are and Influences neurotransmitter balance then there has to be a connection between The nutrition and neurotransmitter brain chemistry neuro typing concept So then it was kind of putting all of those pieces together and coming up with the full kind of like overall lifestyle approach of neuro typing Which factors in nutrition training like your everyday life how you handle stress and all the things that we've been able to create now Yeah, that's fantastic. That's The the integration across across disciplines and across systems is something that's really really hard And it's something that that not a lot of people Have the skill or the curiosity to do and that's I mean, that's what I think is really impressive about About I mean and just I'm just scratching the surface on it because I literally just got connected to it a couple of months ago And I'm already told you I'm signing up for your next for your next certification. So next time I can make it to one I'm gonna I'm gonna get the I'm gonna get the neuro typing certification Thanks for tuning into this episode of the platform podcast. We'll get back to the interview shortly If you're a loyal listener, you know that I don't typically do interludes But I wanted to take this opportunity to share some exciting updates The date is set for the first annual twin cities kettlebell open on October 23rd We will be hosting at the athlete lab here in little Canada, Minnesota in the heart of the Twin Cities And we've already got some great sponsors starting to be lined up Bellovator from Dennis, facility has given two belts for us to give away Our friend Nikolai Poochlove from the Seattle kettlebell club is providing his new made in the USA pro kettlebells for competitors to try out and use on the platform sanctioned by the IKO Additional sponsors include barefoot athletics and gaspire nutrition as well And if you have any ideas or connections to other interest sponsors, please reach out to me And also please go register for the event on our website twin cities kettlebell club.com And now let's get back into the interview So how many neuro types are there and how did you guys how did you guys determine that how is that how how how was that determined and then Where did you guys go from there? Yeah, absolutely. So there's there's five different profiles And a lot of this stems from personality psychology which has been utilized in like, you know job hiring If you recruit a serial organizational psychology background And then also in like relationship coaching So even leadership coaching there it this Kind of practice has as use cases across the board So it makes sense that it applies to you know kind of what we eat and how we train and just the way that we live our lives So looking back at like previous models We looked at the braverment assessment. We looked at the cloning or model And those kind of break up It's like really the first insight that we get into Neurosransmitters associated with personality types And just kind of came up with what we look at as the five different neurotypes and and it just when you start to see the research It kind of naturally aligns this way some argue that there are six So like the way that we break it down. It's you know type 1a type 1b type 2a type 2b then type 3 So if you look at some of the research in in the braverment assessment You know, there's there's kind of this like 3a 3b That could potentially be you know a separate whole profile, but Once we kind of looked at how that breaks down and how it applies grouping it into five just made a little bit more sense because it really was splitting hairs into some of the differences and what we're trying to accomplish Everybody has characteristics of multiple types. So the amount of profiles was like You know, you have to come up with something that's practical that makes sense But not trying to pigeonhole people too much because you're you're upbringing and your background and your life experience is going to play a role in shaping your personality And this is where Personality psychology tells us like okay, we have this genetic Profile of or personality type, but it expands as we age and as we experience life So that's where it's like it gives us a good framework But also understand that we all have different characteristics of multiple profiles So then there's plasticity to it like you mentioned like as you as you as you train your body, right? You can influence the type of fibers that you develop and as you eat differently You know over the course of your life the way your body uses fuel can adapt and like so all of these things are always You know when people ask is it nature or nurture genetics or genetics or are your choices and the answer is always yes You know, it's it's always a combination of the two and and your choices influence how your genetic the epigenetic representation how they express and then you know Etc and some of those things are outside your control like it's a whole fascinating thing to try it You know, it's an interesting puzzle to to try and unravel a little bit. Yeah, definitely And we're taking two concepts that are literally like Two of the things that we know the least about which is the human brain and the human metabolism and we're trying to put a framework around them So it will continue to evolve and that's I think that's the exciting part about it is like there's so much New and evolving research and it's we really just have started to scratch the surface Yeah, well, and you're getting you're getting more and more uh, I mean I guess we would call it anecdotal data at this point where you know You're getting you're getting people are living it and doing it and doing it and applying it and they're giving you feedback And you'll collect more objective data from them as as they go through the the protocols and That's that's very cool. Can you give people um, just a cliff note a cliff notes version of the Of the five of the five types and and kind of like what what what they are and how you Yeah, so the way that we kind of profile And separate the types. It's by the dominant neurotransmitter system And for those that don't know neurotransmitters are just chemical messengers that that pretty much control Everything literally everything you can't have a process in the body If you seen inside out from Pixar All of our emotions our movement you know fear anxiety all that is controlled By neurotransmitters. So we look at what is the dominant System neurotransmitter system that creates their characteristics their their behavior tendencies their strengths weaknesses Um, and once we look at that that's kind of how we separate the profiles So starting with the type ones we have type one a and type one b They're both dopamine dominant So dopamine is like that pleasure center the brain the reward center Anything that we do that's kind of like habitual It becomes habit because we get that dopamine release and that's and that's a good feeling It's like the pleasure center and so we want more of that thing So people who respond who are dopamine dominant it means that they're Most of their behaviors and characteristics are driven by the dopamine system So in other words they have a heightened response to dopamine Whereas somebody like a type one a or type one b might have addictive tendencies Somebody who's not dopamine dominant It doesn't have as much of a you know heightened response if they are let's say You know adrenaline dominant for example, so a dopamine dominant individual they're gonna be You know more extroverted and outgoing. They're gonna be like risk takers thrill seekers Stop attacking me Mike They're gonna be argumentative Might not do well with authority again more prone to addiction because More exploratory if you think about you know dopamine. It's like okay. Well if I Let's say did drugs which use an easy example and that stimulates dopamine. Well. I want more of that So now the drugs that I'm doing You know eventually I start to get used to that feeling and I want more So I need to do more to get the dopamine response that my body craves Even things like being extroverted being you know taking risks being outgoing All based off of seeking that dopamine response. So if somebody who would be like really excited to jump out of a plane For them they don't think about like well my parachute might not open and I could die They think about you know, and this is subconscious. It's not like a rational thought It's just the innate trigger of I'm gonna get a dopamine rush from this I'm gonna get it. I'm I'm going to have that pleasure response triggered. So let's go do it like they don't even think twice Like yes, I'm in let's go Whereas you know somebody who is maybe like a type three who's on the other side of the spectrum very Like they're very tactful. They're they're planners very organized. They're not risk takers They're gonna be like oh hell no. I'm not risking my life to jump out of a plane. That's stupid So, you know, that's where like the the driving force of their characteristic is the dopaminergic system The difference between type 1a's and type 1b's is that type 1a's have low levels of acetylcholine type 1b's have high levels of acetylcholine acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter that's responsible for memory motor learning coordination skill transfer So you'll see like as type 1b's they're more multitaskers They both of them are impatient, but type 1b's really like to be stimulated mentally because of their high levels of acetylcholine So a type 1b they're quick learners they learn things like you can show them a complex lift and without even giving them any cues They can just repeat it and do it first try and you're like that was impressive like the natural athlete They like more complex movements So that's like the biggest difference. They're more like creative thinkers. Whereas the type 1b is kind of like The dominant leader like I'm going to physically dominate you The type 1b is more of like a creative. I can I can talk my way into this You know almost like the lawyer versus the salesperson So that's kind of like the main difference the type 1a they are who they are They don't modify their personality. You take it or leave it the type 1b They have a little bit more empathy. They can modify their personality a bit more And then we look at the type 2a that is my neuro type we're adrenaline dominant So most of our characteristics have to do with the fact that we have low levels of adrenaline at rest And we're highly potentiated by any increase in adrenaline. So we get the light shining bright Yep exactly so with adrenaline You know, obviously a lot of people know adrenaline is kind of like the the stress response But it actually increases your confidence it increases blood flow strength So like when you're you know when you're working out you've got adrenaline going You have a higher perceived confidence and strength But when we're at rest we have low levels of adrenaline. So type 2a is are typically a little bit more introverted And insecure when they're not activated But then when they're turned on they become like this alpha version of themselves They come out of their shell. They're like almost like the incredible Hulk You know Bruce banner real quiet But then all of a sudden the Hulk comes out and that's like the alpha version We are people who we need variety Because if we have the same stimulus over and over again It no longer gives us that adrenaline response We get used to it and then we lose motivation So we want something new that will trigger the adrenaline response We also I think I mentioned where people pleasers Our kind of chief motivation is like getting the admiration and respect of others So because when somebody is low adrenaline a little bit more insecure And what's going to make me more secure? Well, it's getting somebody to like me or think that You know, I'm a good person or whatever it may be And then we have type 2b's Their main neurotransmitter system is glutamate Glutamate is the emotional amplifier Also responsible for memory But really when glutamate's present you have heightened emotions so when you're When you're happy and you have glutamate present high levels of glutamate You're like euphoric and then on the flip side of that If you're sad and you have high levels of glutamate you're you're really sad or depressed So with the type 2b's it's all about feel it's all about sensation They're great in a one-on-one setting great listeners They're also people pleasers They like to look good feel good So they get very attached to any sort of activity training Or anything that they do in their life that makes them feel good They get used to that feeling And they avoid things that kind of that don't like it's They kind of avoid discomfort or things that don't make them feel good Because again, it's all about sensation So if you think about like training style They love the the mind muscle connection The pump to feel their muscles working because they like that positive reinforcement That like I did something good and I can I can actually feel it You know great listeners good in in a one-on-one setting And then finally we have the type 3 Their main neurotransmitter system is serotonin Serotonin is responsible for like contentment sense of well-being So they have low levels of serotonin which make them a little bit higher anxiety So when somebody is higher anxiety They typically like predictability Because there's no worry If I know what's coming Then there's no need to be anxious So they're planners They're very organized Very structured They think very logically They're not emotional to bees Or very emotional thinkers Type 3 They're very practical thinkers They like data They like information gathering They like to make pragmatic decisions So anything to ease that anxiety So they typically have a little bit higher levels of cortisol Because of the fact they have lower levels of serotonin A little bit more prone to being high stressed So again, they like to have the repetitive like schedule They're great at following a plan They can stick to it They're very consistent But they don't like sudden change Because sudden change is going to drive their anxiety up Even more So if you're like All right, today we're going to do deadlifts And then they show up to the gym And you're like actually we're going to do box squats Then that throws them off It can completely mess up their motivation And actually risk injury So those are that's kind of like the quick I shouldn't really say quick That's the overview of the five types Oh, that's great, man That's fantastic And as I'm like as I'm listening to you I'm like Oh, that's my son Oh, that's my wife Oh, you know, like like it's funny How you can you can like When you when I hear you articulate it You can start thinking of how that Of how that People play until those archetypes But then I also is thinking You know, it's I think it's good that you mentioned before that like You're anybody's a combination of the things Because like I'm a I'm a one B But I also have aspects of three Because I am very organized and structured And I like data and you know But but my dominant is is one is one B But my I think my three was relatively high And like when you take the neuro type assessment You actually get you actually get a profile Of like here's where you score across the different dimensions Because we're all we're all combinations of those things And I'm curious how much how much does it change over time Have you guys had do you have enough data to have any longitudinal Looks at how it shifts over time with people Yeah, it's interesting So it seems that most people kind of stick with their dominant profile But they start to see things that will come about A secondary profile that becomes really strong or close to their dominant profile Based off of life experience and how they've evolved and grown over time So you know, even for somebody like myself I would score differently now than I would have Like if you had asked me to take the assessment When I was in like high school and college I probably would have came out like significantly higher in one B Because I was at that point in my life Like winning was everything I was an athlete That's like the only thing that I knew was like That's it. We were here to win And so the competitive drive was much higher And as I've gotten older and more experienced Like you know, winning isn't everything And I've learned that you know Failure is such a gift And I have a whole different perspective on it So I wouldn't score myself as high on like the competitive drive scale So I'm a 2A 1B is my secondary But you know, it definitely I would guess that I would have been much higher 1B You know, maybe 10, 15 years ago So people definitely evolve and change It's hard to say like to what extent Everyone's a little bit different But it seems that like the dominant profile stays relatively consistent But that the you know, the secondary and kind of other scores Can adjust quite a bit Yeah, I can see that that makes that makes a lot of sense That makes a lot of sense So and now you guys you mentioned both the nutrition And and the and the training type So so how does it affect Well, start with nutrition right Like how how might it how might it be reflected In in what makes sense for a nutrition standpoint And why does that why does it matter when it comes to adherence right Like like why does understanding your neuro type help with adherence to a nutrition plan Yeah, so this we could definitely go down like a significant rabbit hole But I'm going to try and keep it like very surface level To like paint the picture of why it matters And how it plays such a role in consistency and adherence So we're going to use something like macro ratios So everybody understands that you know protein carbs fats How do we split up your macros to support your brain chemistry So if you take you know type ones who are dopamine dominant And we look at what is the main objective of like the macro protocol Or how we structure their meals Or just nutrition plan in general Well, we want to support that dopamine system Because the worst thing that can happen for a type one Whether it's a type 1a or type 1b Is that dopamine gets depleted If they deplete dopamine they'll feel like crap So from a training perspective we want to consider that But then also from a nutrition perspective We have tools in the toolbox that can help us with supporting dopamine production Mainly keeping protein high And keeping carbs moderate to low Because what happens is if I eat a meal And it's high in protein and fats I'm going to favor the transport of the amino acid El tiracene which is one of the building blocks for dopamine So that's going to support dopamine If I have a meal that's high in protein and carbs That's going to support the transport of L-triptophan Which is a precursor to serotonin Because they take the same transport in the body So it's favoring one or the other So L-triptophan gets the advantage if it's higher carbs And then serotonin is going to be increased And for let's say for a type 1 If they're eating really high carbs They already have higher levels of serotonin So they oftentimes come across as lazy when they're not doing like Kind of at rest they almost come across as lacking motivation or lazy Like I'll give you an example Most sprinters are 1b If you've ever seen a sprinter before a race They almost seem like they could go to sleep And it's like they're kind of just walking around very casual Then they get up to the line They get in position The gun goes off and they're out a million miles an hour And then they do their little celebration And then they're back to like zero They're like chilling again Or if you look at an Olympic lifter Olympic lifter, they're sitting like sitting in a chair And you're like is this person awake And then they go ahead and like snatch 500 pounds And then they go and sit down again And they're like back to sleep That is because they have high inhibitors So serotonin and GABA calm the brain down Type 1s have high levels of inhibitors Which is why they can handle stress better Which is why if we go back to Charles Poliquin He was a very low-carb advocate He was an earn your carbs advocate Because he worked with a lot of athletes Some selecting population of explosive athletes And he worked particularly with power lifters And Olympic weightlifters Exactly, so if I already have high levels of inhibitors And then I'm eating high cars Which drives my inhibitors up even more I'm going to lose my motivation So if I'm working with a type 1 Especially if I want them to get the most out of a training session I need to amp them up to get ready Whereas a type 3 Who has low levels of serotonin They're already amped up They're anxious Their brain's firing We want to calm them down So for them, higher carbs is going to increase serotonin It's going to put them in the optimal state to perform So that's where we look at How can we manipulate macro ratios So that you feel your best So for a type 1 If we're constantly driving serotonin higher and higher They're not going to have any motivation It's going to come across as laziness Why bother Or even just like fatigue Overall fatigue So we would think for a type 1 You know higher protein, higher fats And a little bit lower to moderate carbs And then on the flip side of that with a type 3 They would be the higher carb lower fat approach Because the main priority is supporting serotonin Because they have lower levels So carbs are going to increase serotonin levels So that's where that like strategy can come into play And then with a type 2A They're very much like we need variety first of all Because like I said, we get bored easily If we do the same thing over and over again But if you think about adrenaline Being the main driver for type 2A Well adrenaline is fabricated downstream from dopamine So in order to support adrenaline We also have to support dopamine So that's like where the protein comes into play And then type 2A is typically do well With some kind of variable like Carb cycling, calorie cycling, alternating weeks To just keep things interesting So they're consistently getting the adrenaline response That they crave And there's different like even with a type 2B Glutamate is already pretty high High carbs typically drives glutamate even higher Which makes their emotional stability a little bit off So we have to be careful about You know if we're going too high carb for a 2B They like typically they respond really well And almost like the traditional bodybuilder style Where it's like most carbs are around their training Or they last meal before bed Other than that, you know We're kind of keeping them more like protein fat So there's different strategies based off of brain chemistry And then outside of that We also have to look at the lifestyle variables And just like what makes sense for each individual But just from the the neural type perspective The influence that it has on like mood stability And just feeling better It's such a huge tool in the toolbox Well and it's funny because You know I mentioned you know I think I'm pretty sure my wife would be a type 3 You know she balances me out I'm a type 1B So I'm the emotional one that's the extrovert And she's the analytical more anxiety And you know she balances me out So we're not you know I'm not going crazy all the time Like when it comes to our food Like if I'm making dinner and I'm like Yeah I want I want to ribeye and broccoli And you know I'll make potatoes too And she's like yeah you can keep the steak I just just give me an extra potato You know like that totally totally makes sense Because she she wants those extra cars Because that's what that's what makes her brain happy And I want the protein and the fat Because that's what makes my brain happy Like it makes we both want the wine Because wine is delicious But yeah it's funny Sometimes we do we gravitate towards You know the training style And the nutrition style that fits our nature And then a lot of the times we get Kind of diluted by all the noise out there And we're like oh well I have to do this I have to do that I have to follow You know keto or fasting or whatever else Because this is what somebody said And in reality there's a large part of your intuition That kind of knew all along what was the right fit I just know like I just had an epiphany And now I feel terrible Because my wife and I were getting ready for our wedding She asked me to help her with her Her nutrition and training And she was so she followed basically The same plan that I was doing I was like well you probably we probably need to cut out your potatoes Because at that you know this is bad You know this is 15 years ago I was like well you know Potatoes are bad you know too many carbs is bad So I took away her potato She literally cried When I told her she couldn't have potatoes anymore At least for a few months Well we did our high intensity interval training And you know circuit style weightlifting You know which was great for me She probably hated life So I owe my wife one of at least I don't know 14,000 apologies So I've made so many mistakes along the way That you know it's just we have to learn from experience So until I realized all the things Like I have a similar example where I had a client Who is a 2B and you know 2B is like they're The worst thing that a 2B that can happen to a 2B is they let down somebody that they respect Like like a mentor coach or like they will just go into their like internal shell And by the way 2B clients are the ones that are most likely to just like ghost you Because they don't want to let you down like they messed up on their plan It literally kills them to be like uh-oh my coach is going to be disappointed in me So they'll just not say anything and then you won't hear from them So I had a 2B client that I was training And um she's like going to do this lift and hit a PR And I'm over here like hyping her up and I'm like let's go You got this like and I'm amping and it's like the worst thing that you could do There was a 1A or 1B all for it they would they would do it They would amp them up and they would be fine A 2B all they're all she's thinking about is oh my god This is so much pressure now I have to do this And of course you failed the lift Now she makes you let me down She let you down now It's not worse it's a death spiral She was literally crying in the gym and I'm like oh my god what did I just do And then once I learned I was like I can't believe I was that bad of a trainer But again we learned from experience Yeah yeah you live you live and learn you hopefully you get it you get it more right Than you then you get it wrong um but So so it obviously it dovetails into the training style as well So so what is what is the the quick summary of what are the different training styles For for people that that have the different types Yeah for sure so it kind of follows along the same School of thought which which is you know type 1a's dopamine dominant So we're looking at high intensity maximum load Something that's going to drive dopamine up However we don't want too much dopamine being dumped into adrenaline Because that will deplete dopamine So if you think about the type of activities That will increase adrenaline It's quicker pace and it's more like supersets Metabolic conditioning fast workouts fast tempo So type 1a certainly does not want to do that Because they're going to dump more dopamine into adrenaline which would deplete dopamine They'll feel like crap what they like is heavy weight They want to win the workout it's the competitive drive So it's like grind it out to different volume training 10 sets of 10 sets of 10 Yeah, so they're more of like your strongman competitors power lifters You know anything where they can feel that intensity But not deplete dopamine Type 1b's even though they're also dopamine dominant Because they have high levels of acetylcholine They can get away with more in terms of volume In terms of you know just Keeping supersets in the mix because acetylcholine Takes on a lot of properties of adrenaline So you're not relying as much on adrenaline to get the job done And with their acetylcholine They like to have multitasking involved They like that mental stimulation So a type 1b is typically somebody who likes explosive movements Complex movements Super sets they like a quicker pace And they can handle a lot of volume Because they don't have to risk or they don't are not as at risk of depleting dopamine With their higher levels of acetylcholine So they're they're the type that's like you know skilled transfer They can do something like lunges and it transfers to their squats Even though they hadn't practiced squats So just very like athletic explosive type movements Kind of like Olympic weight lifters And then the type 2a's we're all about variety So you know typically type 2a's do well with CrossFit There's kind of the built-in variety Type 1 can do well with CrossFit as well But anything like we can do You know some kinds of powerlifting It just can't be too repetitive We can do some type bodybuilding It just can't be too repetitive So a typical mix of both like neurological work But also also muscular work The type 2b is your traditional bodybuilder Mind muscle connection It's all about the pump It's all about the fantastic all the time And they also like the positive reinforcement training So they'll often gravitate even towards like spin class or orange theory Where there's like a pool of sweat That's that's a sign that they had a good workout Like I can feel the sweat That means I did something positive And then the type 3s are technical masters They love to master form and technique before anything else So they can do anything It just takes them the time to feel comfortable with it Enough to master that skill And then oftentimes they do gravitate more towards endurance sports Because it's so repetitive They can just go for a long run or a long cycle And just be in their mind And at almost as like a calming activity for them Because it's so repetitive and predictable Yeah you just you gave me you just So I've had a hypothesis in my head for a while that there's a That there is a psychological profile for people that gravitate to kettlebell sport You know and we were talking before we started recording about how the The you know some of the athletes that I've had take your assessment You know have thus far all come up as 1b But now I'm going to give it I'm going to give it to everybody Because now I want to see I want to see what Hey what do they need from a training style And be what do they need from a nutrition from a nutrition standpoint But I can see I can see a lot of people in this sport Being very much type 3 Because it is a very technical, cyclical, repetitive sport And there's a lot to master But there are also three different lifts within it So snatch is like you're doing 200 plus reps in a 10 minute set And it's like the form needs to be perfect But like long cycle is clean and jerk And it's power output So I could see a lot of people that are long cycle is being 1b dominant So now my brain is going all sorts of different directions So I love it man this is an intersection of all the things I nerd out on Psychology, training, nutrition So I love it this is fantastic I got to get into the certification Yeah definitely and that's the fun part about it Not only will you start putting those pieces together And profiling everybody that you encounter Some of the things is with relationships That's one area that I when I created the certification I did not expect there to be so many people who are like This improved my marriage This improved my relationship with my kids And that was like so rewarding Because I totally didn't expect it But it makes sense when there's a greater level of self awareness But also a greater level of awareness around Who you're interacting with And why like some people are like Oh my god, I just had this light bulb moment About this argument that we got in And now I can totally see why they thought this And it was like these moments It's like the love languages thing It's very similar That's fantastic man That is fantastic I can totally see that So you've given a great gift to the world man That is awesome Like I'm very excited for I'm very excited to have discovered this And I really appreciate you coming on the podcast And this is fantastic I'm nerd out my face hurts from smiling So I'm really excited So how do people how do people follow you How do they hire you how do they how do they work with You know pop coaches You know give people give people the You know how do they learn more about about neuro typing And how do they get at you Yeah for sure I appreciate you having me on This was this was a lot of fun So the best place to connect with me Personally is Instagram It's at coach underscore Mike underscore milner And then you can also connect with me on Facebook Which is just Mike Milner My website has the neuro type assessment If anybody wants to take that It's just put the link in the show notes for sure Yeah it's just neuro type training.com And so yeah you can find a lot of information on there We have a Facebook group that's called the personality diet And neuro type training And then I also have a podcast called mind over macros That's like my passion project where I can just Have some long form conversations like this Which is what I enjoy the most Awesome awesome Well Mike thank you so much for coming on I really appreciate you taking the time And thank you for for dropping all the knowledge You know guys go go give them a follow on on Instagram Join the group on Facebook I'm in a Facebook group I'm doing I'm actually doing the neuro type Challenges got a six week challenge going on right now That one's full but I'm assuming there'll be another one coming up Probably in the not too distant future You'll probably do another six week challenge Which is a nice intro to this concept And gives you kind of a good a good blueprint And I think it was it was a hundred bucks to get in But you can get your money back at the end of it If you if you follow if you follow the steps So it's a it's a really cool thing Yeah, definitely we'll probably do them quarterly Is kind of the plan right now So yeah, definitely get in the group And then you'll stay up to date on on the next challenge Awesome Well Mike thank you so much for coming on I appreciate you taking the time And we'll be in touch soon then Yeah, thanks so much All right, have a good day Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast I'm Jordan Kunde-Wright We'll be back with a new episode for you next week Please don't forget to register for the Twin Cities Kettlebell Open on our website Twin Cities Kettlebell Club.com And if you have a question or a suggestion Please email me at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club At gmail.com And don't forget to follow us on social media at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club And if you want to step under the platform And competing Kettlebell Sport Please reach out to me Until next time