"You need to experience failure to appreciate success." | Andrea Lavoie, MSIC Long Cycle, MS Biathlon

Welcome to the platform podcast where we talk to coaches athletes experts and real people to learn about their approaches to training nutrition mindset and much more I'm your host Jordan Kunde-Wright founder and head coach of the Twin Cities Kettlebell Club And I'm on a mission to help others build sustainable healthy lifestyles. My guest this week is Andrea LaVoy She is a master of sport international class and log cycle master of sport by Athalon, a mother of two and a bad-ass coach and lifter. I am really excited for you guys to hear her approach to training as well as her mindset, how she faced failure, and how she overcomes the difficulty that is stepping onto the platform at the highest possible level, and how she continues to stay motivated despite having reached the highest heights that you can achieve in this sport. It's a really really fun interview and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I want to take a second to say that I am incredibly grateful that you listen to this podcast and if you haven't already, please be sure to leave a rating and review of the platform podcast in your app of choice and support my work by supporting our sponsors whose affiliate links you'll find in the episode notes. And if you want to step onto the platform and compete in Kettlebell Sport, please reach out to me. I help athletes of all levels reach their goals without wasting time using my integrated online coaching approach. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club, or email me at Twin Cities Kettlebell Club at gmail.com and please don't forget to register for the Twin Cities Kettlebell Club open on October 23rd here in Little Canada, Minnesota. Now without further ado, let's step onto the platform with Andrea LaVoy. All right, welcome into this week's episode of the platform podcast. My guest this week is a long awaited guest Andrea LaVoy. She is a Canadian world record holder, a long cycle specialist, and a hell of a lifter as well as she is now coaching her own athletes. She is the head coach of team LaVoy. I'm assuming it would be called now sure team LaVoy. And that is just a recent venture, right? Andrea, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. So when did you decide that you were going to start taking on athletes? When did you, how many times did you get asked before you're finding like, okay, yes, I will coach someone. No, I haven't been asked too many times, but I knew of Amanda and I met her before. And then when she asked me in December, I was like, she's awesome. Yes, I want to train you. Since training her, I've really enjoyed it. So I'm really looking forward to hopefully training some more people and getting some more students. Amanda, Amanda is awesome. So shout out to Amanda. She was on the podcast recently. So she is, she is under Andrea's tutelage and kicking ass in her own right. But I think you're probably of the people that I talk about on the podcast. I think maybe one of the people I've talked about the most before, before you actually gave on the five. It's taken so long. It's like episode 45. Yeah, I've mentioned, I've mentioned you so many times on this podcast. I think recently I said that you steal people's souls and that you crush people. So for those of you that don't know, Andrea is master of sport international class in long cycle, which is the highest level you can achieve in the sport short of honorary master sport, which can only be given to Russians from Russia. So as far as what you can actually achieve by virtue of just of your lifting, Andrea has the highest accolade you can get. Now what was that result that it took to get that? That was two, 24 long cycle, 57 reps. So I think I only needed 53 or 54 to get MSIC. Might have even 50 and what is your weight class if you don't mind sharing 58 kilos. So, okay. So we're talking roughly two thirds of your body weights, 50, 50, 57 times over the course of 10 minutes, which is insane, that is insane to me. I'm sorry, that's like me doing that with like double 50s. Like just to put that in context, like that is that is crazy. Like how much how much weight that is relative to your body weight? Like how does that change the dynamics of the lift when it's when it's that heavy of a weight relative to your own body? I have to be I feel like I have to be so focused when I start to pick up those 24s. Even right when I touch the bells and I squat down and I'm ready to pick them up off the ground, I have to make sure my legs are right and gauge my hamstrings and my glutes to just get that first clean up. So I find, you know, and I can be distracted. So if I get distracted with the 24s, that's it. So I have to be totally focused and it just each rep takes so much out of me. I have to be totally focused to do a jerk like I've done. Yeah, even one even one one bad rep or even one partial bad. Because the long cycle is both the clean and the long cycle and are the clean and the jerk. Excuse me. And like like you said, if the clean if the clean is off, well, that rep is pretty is pretty fucked because because you expense so much energy just yeah. And then if you have a bad jerk like then it just carries over into the into the next one. So it's yeah, that's that's that is super that is super impressive. I like I can't overstate how impressive that output is at your body weight. It's it's incredible, it's incredible. So so let's let's go back to like the timeline of your journey. Like as someone who has never achieved anything close to that level of success. How long did it take you to build to that level of competence, capability? Like let's go back through your journey and kettlebell sport. Like take take me back to the beginning. Okay. Well, in university, my rugby fitness coach was actually Jennifer Hingenberger. So that was nicknamed shout out to Jennifer Hingenberger. Her nickname was Hoots at the time. I'm not really sure why her nickname was that. I think she was a shooter girl or something, so they called her hoots. I mean, she's a hoot. So she is a hoot. So yeah, so 2009, that spring summer university. We were done university and she opened up a bootcamp studio like a kettlebell bootcamp studio. And my roommates and I checked it out that summer. And we loved it. We loved the workouts with the kettlebells, not sport yet. So we were just doing bootcamp style workouts pretty much every day, like every day, 2009 summer. We were at the studio sometimes twice in the day. We were working out because it was it was a lot of fun that summer. And I in the fall, like two, I started personal training. And I was also then doing some coaching for Jen. I was doing some of her classes for her. And it wasn't until 2011, she actually introduced us to kettlebell sport. Me and there was about five or seven of us. She introduced us and yeah, I don't know. Like you know, playing in rugby, like it's about, you know, hit hard, hit low, hit often. Like you want to work. And then this idea of, no, you got to conserve your energy. I don't know seemed, seemed kind of weird to me. I had a hard time wrapping that around like what I'm not supposed to work hard. Like I didn't, I didn't really get the whole least mode. Not beast mode thing is very hard before my rugby players. Yeah. So yeah, and you know, I felt weird on the wrist and my back. And I wasn't quite sure at the beginning when we started. And at that time, Jen was training with Catherine Eimes. And she had already done a few competitions. So she was still, she was another legend, Catherine Eimes. Yeah, so she was new to kettlebell sport. And so a couple of months into training, we did a five minute competition. The North American outlaw competition and Ann Arbor and Michigan with Ken Whitman, Sherry Whitman and Curtin Joanna Funk. So they did this. It was like an introduction to kettlebell sport. So I think everyone who was there only did five minutes. Nice. So that that competition I did when I'm long cycle with 20 kg bell. It was just like a five minute and it was just a really fun competition. Ken Whitman, he did like this big smoke show and he did these tricks and he wore a mask. And I'm like, this is fun. And then, you know, after we all went and got to ring. So I'm like, this, this is awesome. And it was kind of filling that void, well, you know, playing rugby and that social. And then, you know, I was no longer playing rugby anymore. So this was kind of filling that. So yeah, so all right. So now I got, I got to ask on the rugby side because, you know, former, former ruggers got to know what's, what's your favorite, what's your favorite rugby song? Oh, man. I won't ask you to sing. I won't, I won't make you sing it. I won't make you explain it. But I'm just curious. Yeah, the Chicago, the Chicago song. That's a fun one that I used to work in Chicago. Yeah, that's a good one. There's so many good ones. I could just, yeah, the SM man seems to be the one that, like, to me, is most, most applicable to the sport. Like, oh, we were just things like those bus riding. That's all we did was just sing rugby songs. Oh, yeah. Okay. And so now, so now something other people can, can actually understand what position did you play? So in university, I play mostly inside and outside center. I played in the centers in high school. I played eight man. Okay. Yeah. I could see that I could also see you being a fly half. You know, so I mean, I just, yeah, well, in high school, I was probably, in high school, I seen one of the bigger ones, but then once I got into university, I would seem to one of the smaller, the smaller ones. Yeah, I played more in the back. Yeah. So, okay. So let's, let's go, let's go back further. So you're, where, since we're getting into your athletic background, did you, how did you grow up? Did you grow up in a big family, athletic family? Have you always been in sports? Like, tell me a little bit about how you came up. Yeah. Two sisters and a brother and my sister is quite athletic. She has a boxing background. She's a five time, Matt has a five time national record for her boxing. So, yeah, growing up, you know, play T-ball and baseball and in high school, play volleyball. I played all the sports, I never was the best, but I played them all. Okay. Where you were, so that with, with the family, that size and high level athletes in it, did, did competition at home get pretty intense? Or were you guys, are you guys super competitive with each other? Oh, are you the boxer? I'm like, no, I'm not the boxer. You know, nobody player, you know, or I'm the kettlebeller. But I was like, oh my goodness, are you the boxer? And I was like, oh God, no, not. Just wait until we get kettlebell sport into the Olympics. And then you, yeah, I, yeah, when your sister can get the, oh, are you the kettlebeller? No, no, I'm the boxer. Yeah. So, but it's been funny because this, so my sister Melinda, she, um, she lives in the city, but this last year with COVID, her job at the gym isn't going on right now. So she's kind of moved back home down near where I live. And so she's been training kettlebells this last year. And she's actually doing really well. No, she's just, because she's not naturally athletic and very strong. Yeah, she's doing very well. Well, unboxers have cardio too, which is, you know, what? Great cardio, like no problem. She has no problem doing like an eight minute set or, or like sprinting. And yeah, like three minute sets. She's like, yeah, man, I'm used to this. No problem. That's all right. Three minutes. No big deal. Yeah, three, yeah, she's doing 12, 12, three minute rounds typically. Oh, yeah, yeah, so amateur boxing. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, but still, I mean, that's, so she's, she's already, she's already ready for 10 minutes. That's like a couple of cardio standpoint. Now it's just a matter of, of teaching her the technique. So she, is she going to be competing soon? Or are you going to, are you going to get her on the platform? Yeah, we're both going to compete next month. Nice. We're at, um, we're going to, well, at home in my basement. Yes, what, sorry, what competition? I guess I should have said, yeah, Todd Lorraine's comp, this, this one's in one. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's fantastic. And so what are, and so what are you targeting for, for that? What's your, what's your goal for that? So I'm, I'm really hoping to hit 60 with two 24's, um, like I mentioned before we went on, there's, there's a woman in Russia in a stage, a who just last week hit 60 in my weight class. So yeah, I always want to hit 60, but now I really want to hit 60, um, to kind of match her. Yes. So you, we were, we were talking about this before we started recording you, you, were the world record holder. And now she, and now she took your, she took over the world record just last month. And so now are you, are you, are you trying to take it back? Or are you just like, or is it, or is it just like, I just want to show my vest? And I just, or is it 60 or like, I struggle with that? Like, no, I, no, I just wanted, I just want to do my best. And yeah, 60 would be, would be nice, 60 would be nice. I'm not, I don't feel ever against someone, but just myself, I feel like it's time to hit 60. I've done enough, like I should be able to hit 60 now. Like based on training, I should be able to hit 60. So that's all I feel like, okay, yeah, I mean, sure, I can, I can see that. So tell me a little bit about about your, your training philosophy. Well, I mean, you, I know, I know the type of output that, that you do because we're in the, we're in the Canadian kettlebell collective chat. I think is what Amanda and I dubbed it the rev four chat for, you know, as, as it's known on the streets, rev four. So how do you, how do you approach your, your program design and, and your training output? Like, how are you going about that? Okay. Well, I did train with, so I trained with Jennifer Hintonberger for 10 years, almost up into the last, last two years, I was training with Jennifer. So I take a lot of what I've learned from her and other people I've worked with. Usually my training, I usually don't work more than 12, 12 minutes under bells. I know a lot of people do 15 minutes and I've tried that. And even with lighter weights, I have a hard time, I have a hard time doing 15 minutes. So I find, I find 12 minutes is a sweet sweet spot. And I'm talking 12 minutes total, right? So 12 minutes total of kettlebell training. And yeah, I usually probably be different from, you know, other coaches, but I usually start, maybe have a warm up set, but usually start with the, the heavier bells. And then more closer to the end, finishing with, with lighter bells and going faster. What's the, what's the philosophy behind that or what's the, what's the, the hypothesis behind that? Well, more for me, I just find, you know, coming, you know, the middle and the end, I'm just more tired and the idea, like, I know with, like, Bobby will send me, like, show what he's done and the idea of living heavier weights at the end, I just, I worry about hurting myself or just not being able to complete the set. Yeah. And that's another thing while training, training with Jen, like, there was very few times. I didn't fit. Well, okay, 24 is a different story, but very few times I didn't finish a set with training. So the idea was to finish and to not quit. So, you know, things we didn't throw in heavy, heavy stuff at the end, like that, not usually. So if I, if I can distill that down to what I think the two essential elements that you, you articulated are as a safety and injury risk reduction is why you do the heavier stuff first. And then be with the warm up, with the proper warm up and maybe even a light two minutes set, like a two minute, well, yeah, when you start getting into your work sets, you start with your heaviest work, you start with your heaviest load first because it's the lowest risk of injury. And you're going to get the best output early, which makes sense. And then it also sounds like there's a psychological confidence building component of it as well, like never fail a set in practice. And so you said, yeah, okay, I can get with that. I can get with that. I enjoy the feeling because we always try and finish strong. Like that's one thing we always do in my team is like always finish with a flurry. But I do that in a slightly different way, but I do do what you're talking about. Sometimes where I will have the weights get easier, I will have the times get shorter as we fatigue. But I always try and push my athletes to really control pacing really well. So I'm like, I'm like, we have five sets today. You don't have permission to go over the prescribed pace until you're at least halfway through at least halfway through all of the sets because you never know how tired you're actually going to be when you get to that fourth or fifth set sometimes, right? Like that, that's how I kind of attack that. But I really like that philosophy. But I like, you know, you got to change things up, you know, so yeah, sometimes it will be heavier at the end. And at the end, you can do a longer set, but just at a lighter, at a lighter weight. Yeah, I get that's kind of what it's kind of what I'm doing. I like that. I do enjoy that, I do enjoy that philosophy because I very much, I'm very much of the mind that that building confidence and practice is very important. And as you know, this game is 90% half mental. So going into it, knowing that you can, that you can complete the time that you can finish, that you can finish the set, I think is a huge, that's a huge mental advantage to have going into a set knowing that you can, you can and have done it before and you can, and you can be successful doing it. I think that's, I think that's very huge. Yeah, and you, you know, you don't want to put on the platform. So you don't want to start quitting and practice. So I feel like that's important. You got to finish your sets and practice to show that you're going to finish them at the competition, I think. Yeah, I agree, I agree with that, that within the realm of, within the caveat of, don't hurt yourself. That's always, that's always a modus operandi number one, right? Do not hurt yourself and we can't progress if we can't train. So make sure you can come back to train the next time. Okay, so you're doing, so you're doing 12, 12-ish minutes, typically is the sweet spot of your, of your, of your heavy work sets. How much GPP and other adjunct work do you do, like during your kettlebell sessions or do you do them on different days? So I would say I train about five, six days a week. So right now I'm doing sport three days a week and at least one of those sport days, I'll do, at least one, maybe two, I'll do 20 minutes of GPP, you know, weighted jump squats, or it'll be like a 20-minute bodyweight circuit, or, you know, maybe I'll just focus on deadlifts, but usually not more than 20 minutes. I don't want to spend too much more than an hour working out a day and by the time I warm up to lift 24, it's like you're already at half an hour I feel. So I try not to work out too much longer than an hour. And then on my other two days, I usually, Jen would make us do so many boot camps, even still while training a lot of boot camp style workouts. So one of the days I usually do, you know, a boot camp style sort of workout. And then the other day, again, focusing on maybe, you know, back, you know, deadlifts and rows and, you know, stuff like that. And then my six day either go for a run or do yoga usually is kind of what kind of what I've been doing this last year, that's kind of been my schedule. Okay, so you're talking, I mean, I'm going to generalize that you're talking six to seven total training hours a week, right, of training time. So not a crazy, not a crazy, like, you know, two to three hour sessions, you know, multiple days a week, like some, you know, some of our famous Russian friends that are apparently trying to kill kill others and kill themselves. We won't say, we'll just say it ends in E and starts with Dmit. But the running the running joke on Instagram is which Dmitry is trying to kill which kettlebell lifter. So shout out to cam, shout out to Bobby, both with their back and forth Dmitry's trying to kill us. That is very much like the St. Petersburg School of volume, you know, volume is what makes champions and you'll either break or become unbreakable, which is fine for some, but it's cool, it's cool to hear that like, you can achieve a very high level of achievement without needing to put in crazy 20 hour training weeks, right? Like, right, I think my thing is consistent. I am like, that's every week. Like, I wouldn't, I'm very rarely miss a week. So I'm not, I'm kind of like, not in all or nothing kind of person, something is better than nothing. And I feel like I'm very, I'm just, I'm consistent, you know, five, six hours every week. Rewinding to earlier part of the conversation where you're talking about you, you got, you got started, you got started with single bell five. And now, and now, but you've been super consistent for many, many years. When did you start doing double bell? And like, what was that? What was your first time doing a double long cycle set? And how was, how was that? What, what, what, what, what did you do it at? Okay. So it was after I had both my kids. So after I had Ariana, I was still doing one arm long cycle. And it was my, and now I'm doing one arm 24. So it was my second comp doing one arm 24. And I'm noticing people are starting to do double. So this is 2015. The, that's her name. Katarina. What's her name? Katarina. Katarina. Something from Germany. Anyway, yeah. Anyways, I saw her lifting two 16s and thinking, oh my goodness, like, when do you rest? Like, this is so weird. And kind of thinking like, oh my goodness, I would have no interest in doing that. And then, you know, I got pregnant again right after that. Had to start all over again. And then I, when my son was nine months, we took a trip to California for worlds. And I did my first two times 16 long cycle there. Nice. That was, that was a really good competition. Was that an orange, orange cowbell hub? Yeah. So that was what year was that in 2017. And that was a really good competition. I, I think I did 104, but it was like, it felt so easy. I think just the adrenaline and everything was going. Um, yeah, it felt, it felt really good. So I did, you know, and I got to see, you know, that's when I got to kind of meet. I don't, didn't talk to them, but like Abigail and Kim and Brittany. And I just remember there was a row of them lifting 24s. And, and I'm like, what? Like, this is insane. I felt like I would break. I would break if I ever tried to lift those. Um, so yeah. So that was February 2017. I did my first double bell set. And then shortly after, I then moved up to 20s. So that, that June, I did 20s in Niagara. And I hit 72. And I remember Abigail Johnson was there. And she was talking about her hitting 94. And I'm like, it's not even possible with it. Like I remember struggling to hit 72 and thinking, I don't know if that's possible. So it's cool. Like now I'm able to kind of hit closer to those numbers. And, you know, it is possible. But a lot of hard work. Yeah. So what else? What other fun? Also, that year I did. So I hit 72 and then a couple of months later, surgeon, I took a much needed trip to Texas. And that was a really fun competition. So kid-free, you know, we got to Texas. And at this point now, sorry, when I did one arm, I was lifting at 65 KG. And now, lifting two arm, I kind of dropped down weight to 58. I guess after having my son, and I don't know, I dropped down to 58. But I had to cut like a little bit, like a kilo or two. So I remember going to Texas couldn't eat on the flight, you know, got weighed in. And then we ate a lot of tacos. That will happen in Austin. You will definitely eat a lot of tacos. We were so full from eating Mexican food, which is sort of like a tradition for us before a cop. I usually have like a margarita or something. We were so full we couldn't eat another bite, but Andrea still wanted to go out to another restaurant because she hadn't had dessert yet. I have dessert. I'm a dessert person. So it's 11 o'clock and we're getting dessert. That is awesome. And I remember, you know, the next morning feeling so sick and thinking, how am I going to, how am I going to lift today? And also, you know, warming up, you're warming beside Brittany and being like, wow, like this is really cool. I get to lift, you know, beside a big lifter, Brittany. And, you know, after I lift, I looked at our scores and I actually beat her. And it was kind of, this was kind of the moment I thought, you know, I'm one of the like elite. I'm kind of, no, I'm one of one of them. You had your moment, you arrived. You're now part of your part of your part of the club. Yeah, that was kind of end of 2017. I was kind of like, wow, mind you, she kicked my ass the next day. We did the kettlebell kings challenge. So and because she's a better all around lift or than I am, she smoked me in the in the jerk and the snatch. And I remember as she finished and watched me finish, I remember her saying like, it's going to hurt either way. And she was so right. And kind of since then, you know, you might as well be happy and exhausted instead of disappointed and exhausted. Like failure is going to, it's going to hurt more. And I've kind of always thought about that. Like you might as well push till you can't push anymore. Yeah, I think I said that you tend to have what I would consider a suicide pace that you push people to. I mean, it's it's it's honestly, it's very, it's very impressive to me because the thing that I struggle the most with is pace, right? I can, you can give me heavy, give me heavy weights and I'll throw them around for a few minutes without any problems because that's what I'm good at. I'm a glide stale. You know, I can, I can, I can push heavy loads. But, you know, when you say I've got to do it for, you know, like even when training sets start getting up over over five minutes, you know, five, six, seven minutes, I'm like, uh, well, my coach really don't want to do this. My coach was Jennifer Hintonberger and what is she doing? Like she's doing a hundred days hours. Like she is endurance, like cardio queen. So, yeah, endurance for days. And so go, go. So from her, and I've always kind of had the mentality, like always in practice, you know, you're moving the bells faster than a comp, then you would a competition, like always working a little bit, a little bit faster. You go fast, you go fast and practice a competition. You can go, you can go easy. Yeah. And even if I, maybe not with 24, because that's my heavy, it's weight, but let's say I'm training with 20s and then I, you know, I lift 24s, I still try to keep a fast pace, but maybe I can only do the set like one to two minutes. Like I still try, even if I have to go up heavier weights, to still try to keep the pace and push the pace. Yeah. Yeah. Or else I get really slow. I can get really slow. Yeah, it's, it's an, it's an interesting, it is an interesting phenomenon. I think Kim Foxx actually talked about like, when she, when she, when she went up to 28 and slowed down because the weights were so heavy, she slowed her pace down. And then even when she went back to her regular competition weight, which is 24s, she, she, she had a hard time going fast again because she had like programmed her mitochondria to, to go slower, you know, her body to go slower. Yeah, like if I was to do a 16 KG set, like tomorrow. And if I would be able to kind of keep that, that 12 reps per minute, or you know, now I'm used to working seven reps a minute. So I don't, yeah, I'm curious how that would transfer what my, what my pace would be with a 10 minute 16s right now. Only one way to find out. Like Bobby, the other four in 140. But okay, what happened next in my life? So yeah, so California was my first double bell. And then the following year, so same competition, 2018, I did two 24s. So I went from two 16s, the one year, and then the next year, I did two 24s. So just a 50% jump. So that, yeah. So in the year, so that was a busy, that was a busy year. 2017 was a big year for me. I feel like I did too many competitions that year. What precipitated that jump was it because, because it was kind of like your first year doing doubles that it was like, I don't want to say newbie. And like, you obviously weren't a new lift or but it was newbie, then what they call the newbie gains for being under the, being under doubles. Do you think that's what it was? Or do you feel like you were just like really focused that year and just really put a ton of work into it? I think, well, it kind of started when my son, like after I had my son, it took a little bit to recover. I can maybe go back into pregnancy and things like that. But you know, I'd put him down for a nap. I'd put my, my two year old area in like a little like gated area. And it was like, it was my time. And I felt like I had the fire and I had the, like the drive to kind of get my identity back, you know, lose the baby weight. So I think I just had a lot of, I had a lot of drive right that year. And I kind of followed the rule, you know, you know, once you kind of hit 80 reps, you can kind of go up, wait, so because I hit that, I hit 81 in Texas with the 20s, I thought, you know, maybe I'll give 24 as a try. So that's it. Yeah, I mean, the math works. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't like 20s and 24s, they're just, I don't know, they're different bass. Well, yeah, because I mean, there's, there's a whole bunch of nonlinear, you know, when we start talking about heart rate response and, you know, the output and especially at the kilos that you're talking about, like relative to your body weight and, you know, you're, you're playing a different game than I'm playing right now. So, you know, I'm like, I could throw around the 24s and it's fine because, you know, I'm, you know, 120 kilos. So it's not, not as big a deal. But, you know, for you, it's a very, very different ball game. That's, that's definitely a part of it. Thanks for tuning into this episode of the platform podcast. We interrupt this interview to share some exciting updates about the prizes and sponsors for the first annual Twin Cities kettlebell open happening October 23rd, which we'll be hosting at the athlete lab here in Little Canada, Minnesota in the heart of the Twin Cities. 27 degrees apparel is designing our event T-shirt and has given us a discount code TCKB10 for 10% off all of his apparel. She'd definitely check out, especially the limited edition big Tim shirts, which are coming out to support my man Tim Boyer, who's lost almost a hundred pounds now. Those are only available for pre-order until May 20th, so get them all you can. And as with all of the orders, $4 for every shirt that you purchase goes to support one of several mental health charities, which you can choose when you check out, which is really, really awesome. There's a list of charities that you can choose from to support with your donation, which is fantastic. Also, Barefoot Athletics has gift certificates for six pairs of Ursus Barefoot training shoes, my personal favorite for snatch as well as deadlift and GPP. And as I've mentioned before, Bellivator by Dennis Vasilov has given us two belts to give away. Our friend Nikolai Puchlov from the Seattle kettlebell club is providing his new Made in the USA Pro kettlebells for competitors to try out and use on the platform if they choose, as well as support from Kasparin nutrition and others. So, if you have other ideas or connections to interested sponsors, please reach out to me. And please don't forget to register for the event on our website, twincediscatibleclub.com. And now, let's get back into the interview. I'm, you didn't mention the pregnancy and I was actually going to ask about that because it's, it is something that I don't think I've asked a lot of lifters about. Well, you're one of the, you're one of the few mothers I think that I've had on. So, that's an interesting, I'm assuming that's got to be an interesting experience to go from training, getting pregnant, having to slow down, stop. And then how far back to, like, how far back to zero, how far back to square one is it post pregnancy or post delivery? It is. Yeah, it really is, I don't know, it was from me square. I felt like it was square one. You progressed quicker, but, you know, you wait that six weeks, I remember, and you know, like you try to go for like a little runner, like, no, no, that doesn't feel good. You wait a couple more months. So it's like, it's four months, I think, till I got exercising again after each kid. And yeah, you're tired. I was embarrassing. These all things took into account and were a factor with my training. But I had the drive. So when we were first pregnant, my intentions were to, to work out through the whole thing. But unfortunately at our 20-week ultrasound, we found we, we miscarried one of our identical twins. So we were carrying twins. And so I had been training. And then once I found that out, and doctors weren't really sure what would happen with the other twin, I stopped doing anything, any sort of exercise, just in case that was the reason it probably wasn't. But so all I did was gain a lot of weight in the first pregnancy. And then, but for my second pregnancy, everything was fine. Labor was of course difficult with both. My son wasn't very small. He was not, he was a nine-pound baby. I'm assuming harder than a double 24-long cycle set. But, you know, I know some mothers say it's just a magical thing and no pain, but it really was the most painful thing I have experienced. And anytime I have a really tough set, I can always go back to that pain. I've said that many times to my athletes when it's like, I'm like, I'm like, women are tougher than men. Like, I don't care what you say. Like, I'm like, we're like, oh, this is the worst we've ever suffered. And like, and all of the mothers are like, this is going to be over in 10 minutes. I was in labor for 10 hours. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I feel like that is kind of where my grit and my toughness started. That's, yeah, that's mom strength. Yeah, moms are moms are the best. My, my wife also. Your wife is amazing. Both, both of, she delivered both of ours no epidural as well. So, I'm terrified of both of you because y'all are crazy. And unquestionably tougher than I will ever be in my life. So, uh, that is, that is fantastic. Like, I, it's, it's such an amazing, it's such an amazing experience. And our kids are, are almost exactly the same age, which is, which is crazy to me. Like, it's, it's, it's awesome. I, I have a six-year-old and a five-year-old and years are, are very close, very close to the same age. Just like five and one's turning seven. Same. Yeah, our sons just turned five and our girls are going to be turning seven. Yeah. When, when is seven, when does seven come for years? And a May. And a May. Oh, what, what day? May 29. Oh, I may, I'm May 27. So now. I may 26. Oh, wow. All right. So, a Gemini's for the win. Here we go. Awesome. Awesome. Well, like, what, what is the, what is the competition where they do it? Like, there's an online thing where it's like team Aquarius, team Gemini. Like, well, I was, yes. So, that was the no-bores challenge. That's what it is. Alexander, I mean, Alexandra, he organized it. And it was, it was a great, it was great for the time, because it started when COVID hit. Yeah. And everyone was at home. So, that was, that was a lot of fun. And it was a lot of it. A lot of it was like part of the reason I didn't participate is because I am still, I've, I've mitigated a lot of my competitive nature, but I'm still a very competitive person. And so, like, but more than anything, like, I can't stand, like, embarrassing myself. So, when they're, like, how many, how many, like, tricep push-ups, close grip push-ups, can you do in three minutes? I'm like, I'm like, I'm not filming myself doing three minutes. David Cohen's doing one hand and push-ups with a boulder on his back wall, holding a kettlebell in his teeth or something, you know, like, so I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not throwing my, I'm not throwing myself into that ring of fire because I just, I couldn't stand the embarrassment. But you guys did a bunch of cool stuff. Like, what was your favorite challenge from that? Uh, it was my favorite, which one was my favorite, which one did I do well in? Yes, both of those questions. I should, I should have asked both of those questions. Well, obviously, yeah, sure. I liked the, the, the sport ones, the, like, the long cycle and the, and the jerk. I didn't mind those ones. Um, yeah, I think I did pretty well, like, just the, the chest, like, the chest press. We had to do, you know, how many chest presses can you do in three minutes? So everything was for three minutes. Yeah. And it was just kind of cool to see how many, like, how many can do, like, in a, like, a max set, like, I remember, I would do that. And then I, like, wouldn't do any other training that was like, this is all I'm doing today, this three minutes. Three minutes of max effort. Hey, anything's better than nothing now, right? Like, and it's like, but three minutes non-stop of, like, push-ups. Like, that can, like, you'll be sore the next day. Like, you're like, no, I don't need to do anything else because I'm, like, my chest is, my chest is done or my triceps are done, whatever, you know, whatever it is. So, like, it was really great. I have another, like, adjacent question. So you're obviously excellent at long cycle. Why haven't you taken down by aphalon? I'm not as good at by aphalon. Um, I have gotten up to MS in, um, by aphalon. My, uh, best numbers, well, I have done a triathlon in, um, New Brunswick. And I did, um, 105 jerk, 150 snatch and 84 long cycle, like, all in a day. Yeah. And that was, that was, that was a lot of work to do all three lifts. Okay. So, but I, so I misspoke because I said, why have you not taken? And you're like, just casually, you're like, no, I'm, I'm master of sport in by aphalon. I'm just really not good at snatch. And, and I'm only good at, and jerk, if I spend three months training jerk, like, if I was tomorrow to do jerk, I'm not used to doing jerks, and doing that many reps in a minute. Yeah. No, I need to be training jerks for, for a while. And do, do you like, uh, do you like snatch or do you hate snatch? Are you one of those like hate snatch? I'm a coach now. So I love it all. And, and, and Amanda wants to snatch. So I am snatching with her. Awesome. I'm working on my snatch. And, um, don't laugh at me. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm just not great at it. And it, you know, when you're not good at something, you just don't want to do it. You know, I, I say, I'm going to get better and I practice for a bit. And then I, and they don't get better. And then I get frustrated. So I'm just, I'm not where I want to be, um, in snatch, but I'll get there. I'm going to need a break from long cycle soon. Yeah. This 24. And so I'll go back to buy affluent. And then I'll be able to focus some more time again. Yeah. Yeah. I have a, I have like, I have a working, a working theory about that. Like it's like snatches for people that are super, super perfectionistic and like have to get it perfect. Like the people that people that have to get it perfect are like great at snatch. Like long cycle is like great for people that that are just like work courses and like love that love the, the feel of the like I'm, I'm, I'm almost going to die. And then like jerk is for massacres. So that's, that's why, that's why I'm like a jerk guy. Like I'm, I'm a massacuse. I don't mind the localized suffering apparently. But like, you know, a snatch I, I learned, I've learned to love snatch because of the, I do have the perfectionistic tendencies. But I had the, I had the same thing that you had where it was like for the longest time. I was like, God, I suck at this. I suck at this. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I don't want to do a snatch. Now I've gotten to the point. Now it's like a little more meditative. And like long cycle was like my first love. And now it's like the one that I'm like probably the least into as long cycle. Yeah, I change it for sure. Yeah, I don't know. It's a, it's an interesting thing. I use the net like, I feel like I think I told Matt I said the, I use a car analogy. Jerk tests the frame of the vehicle. How much weight can you just, how much load can you handle? Long cycle test the engine and snatch test the driver because snatches very much about the skill and the mindset of the person working the bell, right? Obviously, there's the physical components of it too. But when you're doing 200 plus reps, right? Like, yeah, the, the ability to get to that next level in snatch is really about the people who can just be perfect over and over and over and over again with those, with those heavy, heavy loads. So that's fantastic. So when are you, when are you going to transition back to by F on after NOCO? Is that the, is that the plan? Or is that just? Yeah, well, let's see how it goes. Okay, how the code goes. What I hit. And then, you know, if I don't hit 60, maybe I want to do it a little bit longer. But yeah, we'll see. Okay. And so you've, you've achieved, I mean, the highest levels you can achieve in the sport. Where does the motivation come from to keep, to keep pushing? The motivation has definitely changed throughout the years. Has changed. Motivation was very high leading up to going to Worlds in Ireland. That was in 2019. And I really wanted to do it at that point I wanted to hit 60. So that was 2019. I was already trying to hit 60 with 224s. I was training with Jen four times a week. I was doing biathlon, training, and longsides. Because I was going to compete all three at Worlds. And unfortunately, when I went to Worlds, I just, I shit the bed. I don't know if it was, I can say that. I don't know if it was because I was, if I was jet lagged or, you know, nerves got to me. But I remember going up on the platform with the 24th and just couldn't get into a groove. And my legs weren't working. I got a no rep. And then before I knew it, the bells were on the ground. Like before I could even realize it, I put them down. And the feeling I had, I just wanted to go, like, run and hide. I just, I was, I was so kind of embarrassed. I felt like I'd wasted a lot of people's time, you know, we had left our kids back at home with my parents and service parents. And we traveled all this way to Ireland. And so yeah, I was, I was pretty disappointed after that lift. And then I'm getting off topic a little bit. But then the next morning, I had to, I suppose I was supposed to lift again and do, do jerk and snatch. And it was like the last thing I wanted to do. That night, I didn't sleep at all. I just, I felt, yeah, I just felt, just really disappointed in myself, I guess. And, and empty. And so that was a huge challenge getting back on the platform the next day at Worlds to do jerk. I remember talking to Jen. And she's like, just, just complete the set. You know, don't try to worry about a pace. So that's kind of what I did. I got up there. And I just, I finished the set. And kind of the same thing with snatch didn't try to hit any crazy number. So I felt a little bit better after getting back on the platform. But I definitely, after Worlds, I fell in love with Cannibal for sure. I stopped training with Jen. And yeah, I would say I almost went a little bit of a depression. I remember coming home. It was my daughter's birthday. And I remember not wanting to make the cake. And, you know, Serge is like, are you gonna make the cake? And I'm like, uh, yeah, I'll do it. Didn't do it. And Serge stayed up all night. He had to make the barbecue that year. Which was really great. But, um, yeah. So I took, I took Worlds pretty hard. And the spark was definitely gone for a little bit. But, you know, you gotta always go back to your why? Why do we do this crazy sport? And it's because we love it. We love the way it makes us feel. You know, it is my outlet. You know, when I'm frustrated with the kids or Serge, it's what I go to. Um, so I, yeah, I kind of forgot my why there for a bit. It was a little bit foggy. But you were, but you were, you were pushing for a high level of achievement on an international stage. And then you, you, you, I mean, that's the thing that's so heartbreaking about this sport sometimes too. It's like, you put in so much time, effort, energy, day in day out, work in your ass off, suffering, bleeding, sweating, swearing, right? And then you get, you get one, you get your one opportunity on the big stage, right? And if it doesn't go, if it doesn't go, if it doesn't go well on that day for whatever reason, whether it's hydration or sleep or travel, jet lag, right? Like, there's any number of factors. Why I can just be not your best day. And then like, and then it's like, fuck, I worked my ass off for so long. And then I just, and then I just shit the bed. This was, this, this was fucking terrible. Why do I do this to myself? Like, I've, I've, I've definitely, I've definitely been there, not at the international level, but I can, I've definitely been in the dark place after a, after a, a shitty, a shitty performance and a competition because you put so much, so much training time in for that one 10 minutes set, like, or three 10 minutes if you're, if you're doing all three, you get three opportunities at it. But if you screw up one of them bad enough, like, you're triathlon score screwed. You know, so like, it's, I can, I can, I can definitely, I can definitely understand that's a, that's a hard, it's a hard thing to bounce back from. So, yeah, we definitely went drinking that night for sure. After the world, it was, it was my birthday weekend. And man, those Norwegian girls, they can drink as hard as they can left. Like, I remember on this Sunday, going to watch the relay. So we were up three a.m. the night before drinking. I didn't do the relay, but they all did the relay. I'm like, how are they watching? Like, they are machines. They're just, so that was the positive of worlds. There was so many great lifters there. Got to meet so many great people. Yeah, Frederick, true grit, you know, all my kettlebell crushes, Tiffany from Sweden and Beatta from Norway. So, yeah, there was some good at worlds, but my performance shit. And even, you know, even though I did shit, people still congratulated me. Well, so, I mean, to be fair, there are a lot of us, normies out there who would be very, very happy to put up performance like you put up on your worst day. So you have a very, you have a very high standard for yourself, which is part of what makes you a great lifter. I know like, you had mentioned, you know, a few, a few months back that you didn't want to compete because you're like, I don't think I can hit 90. I think it was with the 20s. You were talking about I don't feel like I could confidently step on the platform and hit 90. So I just, I didn't, I didn't want to compete. And I was like, I was like, oh my god, I would, I would kill to be able to hit 90. And that's, and yeah, I kind of, I tried a couple times trying to hit that 90. I hit 88. I hit 89. I've hit so many 80s with the 20s. It's like, oh, so far strange. So I was kind of like, you know what? No, I'm just going to lift in my basement here and just do my own thing. But since then, since that lift, I think I hit 93. Like, I've totally kind of got my mojo back. Like since, since then, I know like Rocky has this quote, you know, it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. That is how winning is done. And I feel like with the upside of worlds, and I also tore my shoulder, which I didn't get into, but I, I also tore my super spinatus tendon my shoulder after worlds. Sorry, not at worlds. But so worlds was a May. And then in December, I did the triathlon. And then December, Matt and I were doing a little fun event. And it was the snatch portion. And I don't know what happened. But I did something with my shoulder. So yeah, that was December, yeah, 2019. And then, yeah, COVID hit and all that fun stuff. But so I feel like I've gotten knocked down a little bit. And yeah, we know kettlebell training, like, like any sports, it's, it's not linear. And at the beginning, it was for me. It was, it was PRs after PRs. And I was progressing very quickly. I know it was very nice. But I realized, you know, you're going to get knocked down, which I did. And have a crappy set. And I feel like you really need to experience failure before you can truly appreciate success. And now that I've kind of went through it, now that I've went through it, I look at training differently. And Jen has always tried to instill me. Like, it's just one set. It's just one competition. Like, it doesn't define you. And I had a hard time wrapping my head around that. But I'm coming around to it. Like, one week, I can do really well and be really happy. But then like in that same week, or the next week, you're really poor set. And it doesn't mean I'm worse athlete the next week. It's just I had a bad lift. So are you your harshest critic? Oh, I'm sure all these, I'm sure all of us are. Right? I'm sure all those are. But yeah, I'm just, I'm curious, I'm curious how your internal, how your internal dialogue maybe has, has, has shifted since becoming a coach. Has it shifted at all? Or do you, because I often find myself that I speak to myself way harsher than I speak to my own athletes. And then when I start, then when I start speaking to myself that way, my, it's almost like I have a bifurcated personality where my coach brain will be like, hey, you wouldn't say that to one of your athletes. Why are you saying that to yourself? Right? Like, so it's, it's actually given me a little bit of a, a little bit more grace with myself, because I, I have these conversations with my own athletes more now where it's like, like you just said, like, hey, you still had a, you still had a good set, you know, you were really good minutes minutes, you know, one through one through eight, you were great. Or like, yeah, you couldn't finish the time, but you gave me everything your body could do that day. What more can I ask for? Right? Like those kind of things. But like when I put down the bells early, I'm like, you, you know, everything but a child of God, right? I will, I will beat myself up because I'm like, you're weak, you're meant to quit, you know, I'm like, other people are like, no, you had a really good set, you know, as that. So I find myself giving myself a little bit more grace now. It's a little bit, a little bit better. I was just curious if that's, if that's happened at all for you. Yeah. Well, because I knew with the coaching and man is awesome. She's done really great. Yeah, I guess, no, I'm still, I'm still hard myself. And she's hard on herself too. I don't even need to be hard on her. She's hard on herself. But she's awesome. Yeah, I honestly, yeah, I think, I think to your point, I think we all, I think it's probably very common, just human trait that we all are our our own harshest critics because we have high expectations of ourselves. But so I think I think you probably will find that you'll, you'll have more conversations of trying to pick them up because they'll be beating themselves up. And you're like, no, I'm super proud of you and you did great. But then the more of those conversations you have, it gets harder to beat yourself up because you're like, I actually had, I've actually had Audrey, you know, one of one of the one of my athletes call me out on that when I was like, well, I did this and this and this and this. And she's like, she's like, you gotta stop going between your, your ears because that's a rough neighborhood in there. I know it's so hard on ourselves. It's just a sport. And we don't get paid for this. I don't know why themselves are sometimes because we care, you know, we love it. You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't do something like this and suffer that much if you don't, if you don't enjoy it. You know, I don't know. There's a, it's just one of those, it's just one of those things. I don't know why we love it so much, but we do. It's, it's the fun thing. All right. So the, the, the Kudagra question that I love to ask, especially experienced lifters, if you could go back and tell yourself one tip when you started your journey, or if you get a brand new athlete tomorrow who's never lifted and they're like, I want to be a kettlebell sport lifter. Like, what is the number one tip that you would, that you would give them? Well, I would focus, like, I would focus on technique. I think when I started, I had that personal training just, just athlete, I just wanted to work and I just wanted to sweat and I wasn't too focused on technique. And I feel like even now I'm still trying to fix bad habits. So I think I would, you know, get them focused right on technique right away. So they don't have to worry about the bad habits later. Um, yeah, I think that would be, so be a, be a technician, focus on your technique first. Focus on technique. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That was actually, I had an Instagram caption to that effect today, actually. Oh, did. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I did, I did 10 sets of 10 cleans yesterday going up, opposite of what we talked about, I would, I went up progressively heavier with each, with each set. Um, you know, I did two sets of 22 sets of 22, two sets of 24, two at 26, two at 28. And but, but my intention was as I go up in, as I go up and wait, my technique needs to be tighter. But I also didn't set a constraint on time. I wasn't like, I'm doing a minute on minute off or I'm that I'm going to want, I was just like, yeah, I'm resting as long as I need to be ready because I want my next set for my technique to be even better. And I was like super, super mindful of every, of every rep. And to your point, like, I felt like my focus actually got stronger as the weights got heavier because I was like, okay, the pumpkins are going to mess me up. If I'm not focused from the moment I put my hands on these things, like, I can, I can hurt myself. If I'm not, if I'm not focused when I move up to the 28s, right? Like, and I actually had one rep where my, my mouth was like only partially open when the bells landed. And I actually chattered my own teeth. And I was like, oh, I was like, oh gosh, I'm going to chip my teeth. If I don't, if I'm not, if I'm not careful about that. So I was like, really mindful then after that about like making sure I was like exhaling as the bells came down into the rack. Yeah, breathing is definitely, that would probably be another thing. Like breathing is probably the most important thing. I find, you know, sometimes I get lost. I can't even count because I'm just so focused on my breathing. Like with noble sport, you know, it's that strength and endurance. So yes, you have to be very powerful. But you have to be able to relax. You have to be able to let that parasympathetic nervous system slow down your heart rate. And I feel like that's a skill in itself to be able to really relax and rack, really relax and lock out even for that that split second quarter of a second, whatever it is. Yeah, pacing and that breathing I find is that's really important. Nice. Awesome. Well, Andrea, thank you so much. I do want to be respectful of your time. It's been, it's been an hour. We blocked an hour. I will, I will let you go. But I want to thank you so much for coming on. This was, this is a lot of fun. I'm, I can't wait to see what you do at your next, at your next competition because I know you've been, you're like, chomping at the bit to go put out great, great numbers. And I'm really excited to see what it is. That's okay. That's one set. That's one set. There'll be another one. There's one in October right here. Hopefully, y'all will be able to make it down. Hopefully, that'll be my first income. Like, it's been a year and a half. Like, this is not so hopefully. Yeah, it's going to, and then there's going to be drinking after I'm just going to, I'm just going to, I'm going to tell you so we're, we're going to party. It's, it's going to, it's going to be fun. So I can't wait. I'm really looking forward to it. Thank you so much for, for taking the time. I appreciate, appreciate you coming on. So we'll talk soon. All right. Okay. It was fun. All right. Thanks, Andrea. Thanks for listening to this episode of the platform podcast. I'm Jordan, going to be right. We'll be back with a new episode for you next week. Please don't forget to register for the Twin Cities kettlebell open on our website, Twin Cities kettlebell club.com. And if you have a question or a suggestion, please email me at Twin Cities kettlebell club at gmail.com. And don't forget to follow us on social media at Twin Cities kettlebell club. And if you want to step under the platform and competing kettlebell sport, please reach out to me. Until next time.