The Importance of Fiber w/ Brenna Thompson

Welcome to the platform podcast where we talk to coaches athletes experts and real people to learn about their approaches to training, nutrition, mindset, and much more. I am your host, Jordan Kunde-Wright, founder and head coach of the Twin Cities Ketabaugh Club. And I'm on a mission to help others build sustainable, healthy lifestyles. Before we jump into the episode, I want to remind you that registration is live for the second annual Twin Cities Ketabaugh Open on October 22nd hosted by our friends at the Athlete Lab in Little Canada, Minnesota. Just like we did last year, we will include an option for video submissions for participants who are unable to make the trip in person and they will be eligible for all the same prizes as our in-person competitors. Just go to our website, Twin Cities Ketabaugh Club.com for details. This week, we welcome back my friend, Brenna Thompson. She is a registered dietitian and a licensed dietitian in the state of Minnesota. And she's worked for many, many years in dietetics and I brought her back because we are tackling the topic of fiber. This episode is anecdotally called shit talking with Brenna. We dive into what is fiber. Why is it important? What are some of the benefits that we can get from it and what are some practical tips for getting more fiber into your diet? It's very, very important and I really appreciate her coming back to give us her expertise because she is very, very practiced in this area and knows more than me. So it's always good to bring in an expert when you're talking about things that are scientifically deep. So very grateful for her doing so. Just like I'm grateful for you listening to this podcast. Please be sure to share this episode with friends if you find it useful. Leave us a rating and review on your app of choice. And of course, if you want help reaching your goals without wasting time, please fill out the coaching interest form, the link in the show notes. I help athletes of all levels using my integrated coaching approach. And of course, you can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Twinsities Ketabaugh Club or email me at Twinsities Ketabaugh Club at gmail.com. Now, without further ado, let's step on to the platform with Brenna Thompson and dive into the importance of fiber. Alright, welcome into this week's episode of the platform podcast. I am pleased to welcome back my friend Brenna Thompson. If you didn't listen to our episode previously, she is a registered dietician here in the state of Minnesota and has all sorts of wonderful insights to help us with these more scientific conversations. Today, we're shit talking. We're going to be talking about fiber and why it is important in your diet. And so I felt like I needed to call in somebody smarter than me. So Brenna, thank you so much for coming back on to the episode with me. Oh, I'm super excited to be back. And I'm sure people might be wondering like why fiber like that's why did you pick this as a topic. Yeah, that's what we're going to start with. I think that is actually a good, a good place to start is why do we care about fiber. So I'm going to pose that to you. Why should we care about fiber? First and foremost, fiber. You know, I think a lot of people are maybe familiar with like, oh, each your fiber, like it's good for your gut. It's good for digestion. But that might be as far as they really get with it or maybe they know like, oh, if I eat more fiber, maybe it's supposed to help me feel more full. And then potentially eat less and maybe lose weight, but there's a lot more that fiber does beyond that. So when we're eating our fiber, especially if it's from like our green leafy vegetables and then other sources of fiber. So I'm thinking like the lower carbohydrate fruits like your berries, some of the things like apples, pears, and then some of our nuts and seeds. When we have those, especially at the beginning of a meal, it helps our intestinal tract produce more mucus, which might sound like weird or gross. I know people, like there are certain words that people just hate. And I think mucus is one of them and moist and moist. Yes. But we want mucus, like you actually want mucus in your gut. And when we eat more fiber, your gut can produce a little bit more of that and the right types of it. And that helps lubricate that intestinal tract. And that's part of what helps keep things moving through. So that is just one of the reasons why fiber helps prevent constipation. I think we actually got ahead of ourselves. I know we went straight, we went straight to the why is fiber important. We didn't define what is fiber. That's right. So for those of us who are not nutrition nerds, what is fiber? What is fiber? So for people who don't know as much about nutrition, if we think about our foods, we've got kind of like our three main macro nutrients, your carbohydrates, your fats, your proteins. Yes, there's also alcohol, but we're going to stick with the first three hashtag, not a macro. Hashtag, is that a hashtag? I don't know. It is, it is a macro, but hashtag, not a macro. Not actually nutrition actually plays. Yes. So, but when we're talking about carbohydrates because that's the only group that's going to have fiber in it, those carbohydrates are pretty much anything that is a plant that's your fruits, your vegetables, your grains, your beans, your nuts and your seeds. And to be more on the protein fat side, but all the other ones, as well as those. And you have really tiny carbohydrates. And so those are going to be what we also call your sugars, your glucose, fructose, galactose, sucrose, lactose, maltose. Did I say dextrose? You did not say dextrose. I didn't say dextrose. All the oses. The oses. Those are your really short, we call those mono and desaccharides. Those are your short little sugars. They digest very quickly. That's what we want when we need like energy right now. Like after you just crushed a kettlebell sports set, and you are like, your hands are shaking because you burn through all of your glycogen stores and you're really needing something. You want simple carbohydrates that are short, easy to easy to break down to get that regulated. Yes. That's what a blood sugar spike is actually helpful for you. Yeah, because you're probably not even going to like spike spike at that point. You're just going to soak it up. Versus we have our long carbohydrates. And these are going to be, we might know these as like starch or some people will call them complex carbohydrates. These things don't dissolve in water. So if we think of like those short little carbohydrates to sugars, you can take sugar, you dump it in a cup of water or in your coffee, your tea, and it dissolves. Long carbohydrates won't do that. So if you tried to dump them into something, they just sink to the bottom and their gross. You put in a chopped up sweet potato into your coffee and stir and you just have sweet potato. Yes, you just have sweet potato lumps. Yum. Oh God. And when we hear the word starch, people are probably automatically thinking, oh, pasta, rice, potatoes, maybe crackers, cereal. Yes, those are going to be part of that category too. Any of your plants really are going to store energy as starch. That's that's how they're storing their energy. That's how we store our energy. And so your fruits and your vegetables are going to be included that as well. So if you're looking at a nutrition label, so let's, you know, we're looking at our box or whatever. And it's going to say that there are 20 grams of carbohydrates in there. When you look at that, so that you've got 20 grams total, and then it's going to say there's one gram of fiber. So this is pretty low fiber content. One gram of fiber and five grams of sugar. Everything else in there is starch. So there's 14 grams of starch. Sticking with me. I got you. Yeah. Okay. I'm actually going to ask a follow up question based on that. And this might be your rabbit hole, but this is where the concept of net carbs comes from. Right. You take the total carbs minus the minus the fiber content, and that's your net carbs. Now, when you work with people, do you do just total carbohydrates? Or do you do you have them count net carbs? Because this is a hot debate. Do you track carbs? Or do you track net carbs? You know, I have even had this hot debate with myself sometimes. Honestly, it depends on the person and where they're at and what their goals are. So nuance. It depends my favorite and most terrible answer. Yeah, let's just pull them up. But no, I think that's where if somebody has been tracking carbs for a long time, they have a really good understanding of. Of just reading a nutrition label of using their food tracker. And then maybe we're really working on tightening up blood sugar control. We're working on body composition. Then then maybe we start using net carbs. And we look at that. And. But if not, then it's like, let's just look at the total carbs. Just look at the total carbs. Unless, and this is where again, you kind of go down like a weird little rabbit hole and you're like, unless the total carbs is like 10 grams per serving. Which, you know, you're probably going to see that in more like a keto product or a sugar free product. You're probably not going to see that. So we're just not going to worry. Yeah, I tend to go, I guess this is kind of a work around. I tend to have people just track their total carbs, but also track their fiber. Because I can always, I can always calculate what their net carbs are if I know both of those numbers. But the sake of keeping it simple for them. And I want them to think about their fiber content, right? Because that's important. I want them to be both mindful of their total carbohydrate intake as well as their fiber intake. And not get so down the rabbit hole of, do we need to, you know, how did they need to think about it? Like, let's just, just keep it simple. Track your total carbs, track your fiber. That's my work around for it because I do give a lot of my clients depending on when they what phase of their journey they're in. We start looking at fiber, especially especially when there are issues that need that need to be that need to be dealt with. So now there's, there's two types. There's soluble and insoluble fiber. Can you give us the high level to eighth grade, eighth grade level. What is soluble versus insoluble? I mean, the nice thing is the name says it all. So soluble fiber will kind of like dissolve or not that it dissolves, but it gels. It will absorb water. Or a liquid. You're insoluble. It won't. So the best example that I think people can kind of see these days would be chia seeds. You know, chia seeds are even oatmeal. I think is another good one where you put it in a liquid and it absorbs it and you're like, oh, this is not what I put in there. Versus if you took something like flax seeds and you dumped whole flax seeds in that same liquid and you would take it out and be like, no, it's still grainy. Like it's still kind of like that sandy. So that would be more of your insoluble. Another way to. Yeah. I looked up chia seeds because I was actually curious, I was like, because I was thinking about chia seeds and I was like, wait, are they? Because I know they get kind of gelatinous and I was like, well, how much is soluble versus insoluble? And according to according to Google that's 85 to 93% is soluble. I'm sorry, insoluble and about 7 to 15% is the is the insoluble. Yeah. I know. I did have. I can't read right now. Insoluble fiber is 85 to 93%. So that's why it still stays in those little pellets. But then that 7 to 15% is what gives it kind of like the gelatinous coating that makes it like putting ish. That's why you can make chia seed pudding. Like in the longer you let it sit the more you kind of release that that gelatinous coating, right? And so that that's kind of how I think about it is like solid is the insoluble part. And then the gelatinous coating is the soluble part. Yes. And then you know, other ways to think about it is because foods, you know, like the chia seeds. Any of your fruits and vegetables aren't going to be just one or the other. They're going to be a combination. So if you look at something like an apple or a pear, that outer peel is going to be your insoluble. And then inside you're going to have more of the soluble fiber. Same with like corn or beans. The outside portion is insoluble, the inside portion is soluble. And that's why even when I talk with people and I'm like, well, how's your digestion? And they're like, well, it's really good, but you know, like it's not very good when I eat like corn. Like it comes out whole nobody digest corn. That's totally that's totally normal. That's totally normal. Like, you know, if all of a sudden you're like eating corn all the time and you're starting to not notice corn pellets coming out. I'd be concerned about that one. So now soluble and insoluble fiber, they kind of perform different functions within the intestinal track. Like, what are those kind of, what are the benefits? Let's start with soluble. Like, what is the benefits of soluble fiber? Why do we want that? And then why do we want insoluble fiber? And then in what proportion do we want? So the soluble fiber is, again, it's what helps create that gel. And that gel also helps bind to fatty acids, one of them being bile. So you eat like a higher fat meal and your, the food kind of passes from your stomach into your duodenum. Some people call it your duodenum. I don't care. Whatever. And so in that very short duodenum is where your, your gallbladder starts to squeeze out bile. And that bile helps bind to and start to kind of like digest. And it works with the fatty acids that you've eaten. So like you're the fat on your steak, the fat and your full fat yogurt, your avocado, all these things, starts to bind with that. Fiber can help bind to it and like take some of that fat out. Bile is also made from cholesterol. So if somebody has high cholesterol by helping bind up that bile, we start using more bile and then we can excrete it. And that's part of why having a high high fiber diet helps lower cholesterol is because we bind up that bile and that's one way of getting it all out. Maybe that's confusing. I don't know. No, not at all. I mean, not to me, but that that makes sense. Like it's a, it's a binding agent. It helps. It helps us not have that fat. Those fatty acids in our bloodstream, which for somebody that has high cholesterol, that's something that you, that's definitely something that you want. So that that totally makes sense. Now, now the insoluble fiber, what, what is the main function of that? So insoluble fiber. So one backing up soluble, this is where like I've kind of learned in the past year, like how important that insoluble fiber is. So two other things that it does is it helps slow digestion. Like this is one that really helps like slow it down helps keep you staying fuller longer. This is like metamusol is a soluble fiber and one of its claim to fames that, you know, if you read the little label is like take it before your meals and you'll stay fuller longer. The other thing is that soluble fiber can ferment. And that fermentation process is part of what feeds the bacteria in your gut or your probiotics. So would those be considered prebiotic then, right? Those would be considered prebiotics, yes. Okay, cool. I'm making sure I'm getting my, my terms, my terms right here. So, okay, so the soluble has, that's a lot of good, a lot of good benefits there. Well, we're going to touch more on the fermentable pieces. Yes. I'm going to ask about that because that's something I, I need your clarification. You see a lot of, you see a lot of varying opinions about whether or not we want to eat fermentable foods or not fermentable foods. Do we want to eat fermented foods? We'll go, we'll go with that. Yes, yes. But let's, let's touch on insoluble fibers. Yeah. So your insoluble fiber doesn't dissolve and it doesn't ferment. And so again, these are going to be those outsides of beans, the outsides of corn, the peel on your fruits, and your salad greens. So, you know, people say like, oh, you to salad and it's high in fiber will kind of depending upon how big of a salad you eat. And what you put on it. And what you put on it, as we were discussing, you know, are you dousing it in blue cheese and cottage cheese? Or are you just putting a nice little vinaigrette with some steak there? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's kind of the, the big thing with insoluble fiber is we're just increasing bulk with it. Like that's all we're doing is it's not going to ferment. It's not really going to digest a whole lot. It's just bulking things up. And so when we're saying things, what we're talking about is your poop. I'm sorry if that's gross for some people, but, you know, we are, we are talking about things that help you be regular. And it is really important like pooping regularly is really important. And if you don't think it is, go four or five days without doing it. And then you'll realize how important it is, right? Four or five days, go like two days and you're like, oh, God. Yes, it's, it's very, it's very important and it can make you very uncomfortable if it's not happening regularly. So the insoluble helps build, build bulk, right? And so that basically means it's, it's like, I always told my kids, like the broccoli is the, is the brooms for your, for your tummy, right? I like it. It's helping, it's helping clean out the inside of your intestines and making sure that there's no old food that's staying in there. And fermenting in a bad way, causing problems, gas bloating, pain, you know, or constipation, right? Yes. So if I, if I'm distilling this down, the insoluble gives it, gives it some, some bulk in the, the soluble basically greases through and lets you, and lets you pass it as well as doing the function that I just learned about, which is binding, you're binding to the bile to help to help extract some of those fatty acids and excrete those from the body as well. So if somebody is dealing more with constipation, depending, again, like this is where it's multifactorily, when did they become constipated, when, like, what, like, what triggered it? And then, like, what are they eating right now? And how can we change that? Do we need to increase more soluble? Do we need to increase more insoluble? Do we need to just drink more water? Do we need to move more? But so many times people, like, I've heard it, people saying, well, I only poop, like, once every three or four days, that's normal. No, that might be typical for you. That's not normal. Unless you're eating a carnivore diet, you should be pooping every day. What about twice a day? Some people are talking about twice a day. Okay, so what's the normal, you know, and I know normal is a range, right? So what's the normal range that would be considered healthy, acceptable, or... I don't like using normal, but, like, you know, what would be the optimal range, I guess, for most people? I mean, I really try not to do anything. I mean, one, one, like, the minimum. And yeah, there are some people who poop twice a day. There are some people who typically poop three times a day, especially if they're eating, like, if they're eating a lot of food. As long as their gut is working correctly, and pooping three times a day is just their norm. Great. Wonderful. If you're pooping five times a day, I'm probably a little... My guess is at that point, things are moving through too fast. We need to slow it down so that you're actually absorbing the nutrients in your food. Yeah. And the working title for this episode was shit-talking because we are talking about that. And that is actually a really valuable piece of biofeedback that your body gives you, right? Yes. So your bowel movement should be relatively well-formed, relatively consistent in size, shape, volume, and it shouldn't be difficult to pass them. And it also shouldn't be watery, runny, or ill-formed, right? Those are kind of the... And so long as you're going, and it's relatively within those constraints, right? Like, whether you go one time or three times, it's fine. So long as you're in that kind of normal... You know, what you want to see in the bowl after you've done having a bowel movement, right? Yes. And I think just making it more normalized to talk about it is good. And that's something that I'm working with my four-year-old. I mean, I'll be like, oh, look, like that was a huge poop. Great job. Way to go. You know, and it's this color and it's this color because you can talk to four-year-olds about colors. And again, that's where, you know, if you're noticing that your stools are like green in color, or especially I get really nervous if they're white for people, because that's not a good sign. That's actually one of the first signs of celiac. But, yes, green is, you know, if you're having like really green stools all the time that is most likely excess bile coming through. So my guess is you're probably not absorbing your fats correctly. If your poops are floating and greasy, again, that's a sign of fat maldigestion. So there's a lot of valuable information in there. There's a lot of valuable information in that porcelain throne. So that actually dumps tails into, you know, part of the reason we care about this so much is because gut health, right? And I like to tell people, you know, the calorie, part of the calories and calories out thing that's misunderstood is like, calories in doesn't really matter as much as calories absorbed, right? And nutrients absorb, right? If you're having poor gut health, right? You could only be eating, you know, 1,500 calories a day and still be having problems or you could be eating 4,000 calories a day and still be having problems if you're not absorbing things, right? So the absorption is part of the reason that that's that's so important. How does fiber help encourage gut health? So fiber, especially that soluble fiber, again, that's what is going can ferment. Now we want, we want some fermentation, but we are not gorillas. What do you mean by that? Okay, let's, let's, let's go down the fermentation. Let's go down the fermentation rabbit hole. Okay, so you think of something that ferments so wine ferment beer ferment. Sorry. And what happens when something for like if, you know, if my Nelgin bottle here was like full of beer and we cap it and we shake it, what happens? It's going to explode. It's going to explode. Like you've created a whole bunch of gas in there. If we take something like cabbage and some salt and a little bit of water and we stuff it in there. And we start to ferment that cabbage and turn it into sauerkraut it creates gas. Things that ferment create gas. And if that's going on in your gut, how do you think you might feel? Pretty terrible. Yeah, yes, you're not going to feel great. So there's because we have bacteria and we have a certain amount of yeast in our gut, there's going to be a small, like there's, there's going to be some fermentation in there. So we don't want a lot of fermentation. That fermentation process is what helps us produce short chain fatty acids from some of our foods that we can absorb and use for energy. And that's what gorillas do. Now, if you think of a gorilla, they're not thin creatures. Thank you. My nickname is daddy gorilla. Oh, no. It's okay. I don't mind it. It's fine. I used to carry my kids off the stairs with under one arm and gorilla carry them. That's where the nickname came from. But I hope it's not because of a distended belly. I don't think so. But you think of that gorilla. They sit there and they have that big belly. That's because they are fermenting the food. They sit around and I think they eat for basically the entire day. And that's because they have to chew and chew and chew those leaves and those grasses eat it. And then they ferment it in their gut in order to turn it into short chain fatty acids that they absorb and use for energy. We do not have ginormous, we don't want to have ginormous bellies like that. We evolved from gorillas. We are not gorillas. Correct. Now, some part of like the beer belly that we will see on people. Part of that is because they are literally fermenting food in there. Their belly is distended like when it's kind of like that heart. It's not just like fat in there, but it's that hard to send it. That is gas. That is fermentation going on. Okay. And this is and beyond feeling uncomfortable. This is bad. Why? So when we have so all of that fermentation can lead to inflammation in your gut. If you have inflammation going on in your gut, since I work for psychology clinic, we see inflammation in the brain. And that can show up as things like depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD, bipolar schizophrenia, you name it. There is a big brain gut connection. Are they actually there's a phrase I've been hearing a lot more recently that's the gut is the second brain. Yes. Yes. So when I get so excited talking about this. Okay. So when you are just a couple of little cells inside your mother when you are first created, your brain and your gut start developing at the exact same time. Yes. And the vagal. Yeah. And the vagal nerve that runs from your brain down your spinal cord, but it kind of goes like next to all of your organs. That vagal nerve. Again, that is created at the same time. So your brain and your gut everything is connected. And that is how your body sends messages from your digestive system up to your brain. And then your brain also talks up here and sends messages back down. And this is like part of like the first things that happen when we are conceived. Wow. That's really interesting. I don't feel like we have a good understanding of that yet scientifically. I feel like we're scratching the surface on understanding the gut brain connection and the brain gut connection. I think it's a it's a bidirectional relationship. It is. I don't think we understand. I think we understand the brain to gut feedback much better than we understand the gut to brain direction. Calling all kettlebell drinker you honorable warriors and wielders of the steel the time has come to raid join us and fight for honor glory and the spoils of battle. Sign up today for the Twin Cities kettlebell open on October 22nd in person in little Canada, Minnesota or by video submission from anywhere in the world. Come fight for your clan or for glory all your own to be told in your saga claim your spoils and may your name ring out forever in the hall of champions. Sign up today at Twin Cities kettlebell club dot com. There I so I think one of the like good examples was I worked with a little guy who was on the autism spectrum and had major gut issues. And when he like it's like his behavior would get really, really bad when he had more digestive issues going on and it wasn't just because I like his stomach hurts like who's going to feel good then. But it was almost like when his gut was inflamed. And he couldn't tell people about it that's when his behavior would get worse or like some of his ticks and more of those ass d type symptoms would just really explode. And as we healed the gut then those symptoms diminished. That's really interesting so it was his his way of communicating to the world that he was having issues was through his behavior because he couldn't verbalize that that gut was bothering him. Wow that's that's really that's really interesting that's going to that's going to spin me out so I'm going to not dig on that one too much because don't don't dig on that. But one that I think we can all kind of relate to is where you if you fell in love with someone and you have butterflies in your stomach. That is that connection or when there's a really bad storm coming my grandmother used to get horrible diarrhea because she would get like really anxious and that's that brain talking to the gut. That is that is really interesting I yeah sorry that's that's going to take me a minute to process I'm going to have to to read some research I'm going to ask you actually for some some some nerd material for me to read later but we won't we won't we won't go there so going back to the fermentable rabbit hole what is FODMAP right because I hear that term FODMAP and like I know what it is from having read about it but can you explain to people because they'll hear about low FODMAP foods high FODMAP foods like what is it what is it so FODMAP stands for its FODMAP and that stands for fermentable oligosaccharides die saccharides monosaccharides and polyols and let's stick with FODMAP yeah let's stick yes let's stick with FODMAP again this is where we go back to we are not guerrillas we don't want to ferment food we are not ox we do not want to ferment foods and this is where I don't know if people watch the game changers movie documentary documentary um air quotes air quotes that can't see Brenna's that Brenna's video feed she's making air quotes documentary you know in there they were talking about they were like guerrillas and ox are so strong and I want to be as strong as an ox I'm going to eat like I'm like you're not an ox you have canines for a reason um anyways so I'll take cherry picking for five hundred Alex sorry that's about that that's about the the the mockumentary of game changers yes again we we you want it's like we want some fermentation we don't want all fermentation because if we are doing all fermentation then we can end up with things like sebo which stands for small intestinal bacterial overgrowth people who have sebo feel awful just awful and these people these are people who are getting diagnosed or misdiagnosed whatever you want to classify it as as having like IBS which is irritable bowel syndrome you know maybe at some point they'll get diagnosed with like IBD but I think that's irritable bowel disease which is ulcerative colitis and now I'm blanking ulcerative colitis and the other one Crohn's disease there we go um and those people are oftentimes also going to have sebo that goes along with it and for these people it's like they could be like severely constipated they can have diarrhea they're going back and forth with one or both of them and their guts just not working right. Is it fair to say for most people unless you've been diagnosed with one of those things like they don't need to necessarily worry about eating a low FODMAP diet per se but if you've been diagnosed with one of these conditions it is very important it may be like exceedingly important but for a lot of people like the FODMAP thing is probably maybe not even on their radar is that a fair is that a fair thing to say most likely yes and then for those people it's again it comes back to okay I will are there certain ones of these foods that are a bigger trigger than others like hey maybe they can eat like some of the fruits more like the apples and the pears but they do terrible with some of the vegetables like the broccoli the cauliflower the cabbage. So you're saying bio individuality is still a thing. Oh gosh yes. Okay well and I will say this is my opportunity to say if you have been diagnosed with one of these types of conditions specifically if they're gut related I would recommend working with someone like Brenna as opposed to someone who like me who is a nutrition coach I am not a registered dietitian this is why if somebody comes to me with a specific medical problem like this I refer out to somebody like Brenna because they have expertise to bring to bear and training to bear and how do you apply medicine or food food as a medical intervention for particular conditions right so this is I would say this is really good point to recommend a really good place to recommend working with a professional with the appropriate scope when you have a specific medical intervention so that was just my sidebar plug for you and also you know scope of practice. Well thanks. I appreciate that and I think when people are you know maybe listeners right now are going huh maybe I should try and eat some more fiber like they've made some good points here you know it's good for good it can feed some of the good bacteria when we have it in the right amounts and the right kinds and oh hey you know maybe my cholesterol is getting a little bit high let's try and increase that soluble fiber to help bring it down this is where you got to experiment with it. Test and iterate. What was that I said test and iterate your speak in my language. Yes and this is something I had to do because so we used to live in Georgia and I worked at this it be the little hospital and had about a 45 minute drive to get home and it was like every evening I was just like gosh I am just like gassy and bloated. And I thought well duh your dietitian go to a food journal and figure it out. And so I did it was apples. Interesting because every day that I would drive home guess what I would eat on the drive home as a snack apple an apple yeah it's easy it packs well cut out the apples to totally fine. That is fascinating because I have no I have no problems with apples right this is again where bio individuality is a thing but that you know there are certain things I have I have realized I'm talking about fermented beverages right like I have realized as much as I love beer. It does not love me back right like whereas my drink of choice would be bourbon doesn't doesn't bother me in that in in the same way obviously you know it's still alcohol it's still not good for you but you know if I'm going to have an adult beverage. It's going to most likely be bourbon even even though I do still enjoy beer if I have more than two or three beers like my wife will tell me like don't you're not sleeping in the bedroom because because you because you've drink too much beer today right like it's yes it is one of those things that you know so pay attention to pay attention to those things like because your body will generally let you know if you slow down pay attention and you can isolate variables and that's kind of that's where the food journal comes in right whereas like you have to you have to start being able to document. What were the variables in play when you felt the way that you felt in order to start isolating variables and it might take testing and iteration to figure out what are the things like I actually am a big fan of I think everyone and you can tell me if you disagree but I feel like everyone at some point should do an elimination diet in their in their life just just just to just to see. What are your food sensitivities what are things that maybe do or do not sit well with you because you or should do food food sensitivity testing if you yeah if you want to go the if you want to go the sciencey route but I also like the the scientific method route where you just progressively eliminate foods until you're until you're eating very simple diet for a couple of days and then add things back in one at a time so you can see like how do I feel how and and journaling that process to see because you'll you'll figure out things that. Father you that maybe you weren't aware of I think it's yeah it's like you get super simple and people are like oh that's not fun well. Do you want to do like a week or two of some elimination diet and then feel great for a long time or just keep feeling kind of crummy or even just average or just average yeah amazing how much better you feel when you stop eating things that your body doesn't like. Well, and I think that's where yes like self experimentation and for some people though it's also just becoming more aware of how they're feeling you know in working with a lot of people who have ADHD what I'm finding is that kind of that introspection that really being aware of how they are feeling can be really difficult and so they almost have to rely on other people around them. Because as we do elimination diets with it especially with like kids because kids are just kind of like they're off in their own world anyway so they're really hard to know like if they're feeling well or not now sometimes like you know they do. But this to say like parents are the ones who noticed or people around them or the teachers are the ones who notice of like gosh like they're capable of sitting still or. Hey you know I noticed like they weren't complaining of their stomach aches even though the kids like no I still have stomach aches like you're like you haven't told me that in two weeks like obviously this gluten free diet is helping. Yeah yeah well as a father of a son who has ADHD and silly x disease I can tell you that those those things are challenging but also that getting the diet dialed in is super super helpful. Yes it does make a huge difference so all right we've nerded out really hard for a solid a solid 30 40 minutes here let's let's take it to the simple to the simple side here and let's say what are what are a few tips that that you would recommend like you know top three top four tips that that you recommend for people to apply this without without needing to worry about their their FODMAP or things like that but like how can we get started with. With simple tips simple tips would be eat especially your veggies first so you're sitting down to a meal eat your veggies first and then move on to like your proteins and then more of your starchy stuff be that your fruit or your potato. That can help decrease blood sugar spikes by up to 75% so this your immediate post pran deal like post eating blood sugar spike that every every food causes some type of a blood sugar. Yes except for butter but if you but if you if you eat it if you eat them in in the order of like getting the fiber there then the protein so basically the like the most complex to the least complex in my is that too simple or. That's kind of a good way to go of you know or other like other ways to think about it is if you're sitting down to a meal and you have the proverbial like broccoli chicken and rice we want to eat it in broccoli chicken rice. So we're getting that green fibery stuff first then we get our protein and then you say that that real starchy stuff for last. And that won't change that won't change the overall even trainer it's not it's not the it's like the overall glucose release will still be the same for the total meal but it's just spaces is that you can a much longer tail on it right so still get the same glycemic load that was the word I was looking for but over a much over it's a much more steady release. Of energy in a much more steady release of glucose which is generally better for for people to feel better and stay fuller longer less variability etc right like in my is that perfect. You know another way to think of it is okay so we're going out to a restaurant like we want to start with our salad and then have your steak and then eat the like Texas Roadhouse dinner all afterwards. And then dessert and then dessert. Versus starting with the dinner roll and then having steak and then having your broccoli it's like flip it and reverse it so the Italian restaurant that's bringing the breadsticks at the start of the meal is really. We're doing it backwards yeah they're really messing they're really messing things up for us okay so all right so each each your each your veggies veggies proteins then then then starches carbs like in that order okay cool yeah what will be your next step. I'd say find your staples find the things so you don't have to think about it all the time find the things that you know work for you and work for your gut and just keep them on hand. What are yours because I know what I know what my like staple is and I can I can tell what I want to hear yours for. Lately mine has just been like a fiber smoothie in the morning especially with it being warm now but I'm just making it's like a little bit of some fruit and then I throw in a tablespoon of chia seeds a tablespoon of. Flax seeds or a tablespoon of like tahini in there because that is actually really high in fiber and then I do wanted yeah I do one to two tablespoons of coconut flour. You told me about that and I was like wait what I didn't know that was high in fiber and apparently it's really it's really high in fiber which it's yeah so if anybody's done any baking with coconut flour. You know you use like a quarter cup of coconut flour six eggs because it's so absorbent and I was just like okay how can I get more soluble fiber in my diet and I was like oh yeah coconut flour. And it's really low in I you know I don't talk about calories a lot but it's very low in calories and it's literally like just fiber so it's bendy fatted so it doesn't have like as much fat in it it's not really. You know absorbable carbs it's just fiber nice. And so I throw that in my smoothie and then I now just have some protein on the side and that's where I go with it. Yeah that's that's actually different but similar like mine's kind of the reverse of that so so you're as a most of your fiber comes from your smoothie and your your protein comes from from some junk food I do it the other way where I do my my fiber my fiber oatmeal which is I do like I do. Roll you know gluten free rolled oats chia seeds ground flax seeds because you have to ground grind grind seeds otherwise they don't you can't they don't really absorb and you can't really break them down very well so like I do ground ground flax seed in there and then I do some type of berry usually blueberries raspberries blackberries sometimes strawberries but one of one type of fruit typically in there and then I do like. I do some type of nut or seed and I vary I vary what that nut or seed is in addition to the flax the flax seeds and the chia seeds those are always in there but then I change like sometimes it's pepita sometimes it's cashews sometimes whatever yeah just different different seeds and I I do that and then I do high protein milk in there and I do the overnight oats I soak it I soak it in there are sometimes i'll just do it as like cold cereal and i'll just i'll just pour milk over top of it and i'll do it that way and then I have a. Then I have a protein just just like coffee and protein or milk and protein or water and protein you know to get the to get the additional protein with that that's kind of my that's kind of my high my high fiber breakfast. Because it's super easy because I just I can make the overnight oats you know and I can make two or three days worth at a time and it's just there for me and then I all I have to do is have a protein shake with it and I get. You get it in 50 or 60% of my days worth a fiber in the in with my breakfast and then I know that i've gotten a decent amount of fiber and even if I know other fiber the rest of the day which never happens but if I even if I know other fiber the rest of the day i've still got you know a solid 15 20 grams to start my day off yes from my just from my oatmeal so. That's one of my savings you know and I don't even think we said like. The American Heart Association recommends a good 25 grams of fiber per day so. Yeah that's how much should we be how much should we. A minimum of 25 grams now I have heard like people talk about like anthropologists and they're like we used to eat 100 grams of fiber i'm like when. I get 42 yeah like I don't know where we just sitting down and eating I don't know what we were eating to get that much fiber. I don't know I don't I'm always skeptical about any anytime somebody says anything like well that's why I've always been like we should eat like you know the paleolithic diet which I don't i'm not dogging on paleo I just always find the logic to be to be funny because of what I just said it's like you know our ancestors used to be much healthier it's like well they also had an expected a life expectancy of like. You know 33 so maybe like some of them live to be old but a lot of them also died when they were like I don't know first born or you know. Yeah so the logic it's kind of selective application of logic but you know anyways. Let's get back to that let's get back to the useful tips so you say back to fiber each each your each your veggies and and your and your protein and your carbs you got find your staples and then and then. You know a couple more one or two more you know I would say just experiment and try new things and and this is where it's like you just got to figure out what works for you for a while I was also throwing a bunch of like frozen cauliflower rice in my smoothie to get more fiber in there and get a vegetable. Um hey you can't taste it it works like ice cubes okay if you say so you know I like for the most part I like my smoothies really thick so. Yeah you're like I'm like with a spoon with a spoon but since I've had to remove the cauliflower rice and avocados are now eight dollars for like three. There are a lot thinner and now I have to eat something on the side. But it's like that for me after a while I was like you know what this is making me really bloated so again it's like experiment and find what works. Um there's and pay attention people I've had a couple of patients who. You know we're relying on bars for like snacks or things and then all of a sudden they're complaining about being like really gassy really bloated i'm like yeah because the fibers that they use in there it's listed as an FOS fermentable algo saccharide that's that fermented piece of it. And if you're relying on that every day then it's probably going to cause some issues. Most companies that are making just this is for the for gentle gentle listener most companies are trying to make money and which means they're going to use the cheapest ingredient that you will buy and consume so. A lot of times the bars are made from low quality proteins low quality fibers sugar alcohols things that generally. You know yes they're convenient but use sparingly yeah I won't I won't demonize them and say they're terrible like it's it's something you know but in general if you're eating them regularly your gut is not going to be happy with you. Anyways side bar and then I think we talked about drinking water you've mentioned drinking water like is that that's another one right that's really important and I think that's probably the part in the pun lowest hanging fruit right is like. Getting getting enough water adequate hydration especially in these summer months where it's hotter everywhere right like getting getting a good amount to water in is super super important. Yes because the problem is if we increase our fiber whether it's soluble or insoluble and we're not drinking enough. You can get constipated because all of a sudden you've tried to bulk everything up in there and you didn't hydrate it you didn't Loub you didn't Loub like now you have like this big mass in there. It's going to hit your colon and your colon's job is to absorb water out of something so you have to be hydrated enough so your colon's not trying to suck it all out of your food. And then dry out your poop yeah and then I'll add all that this isn't a tip but this is just a for for people's knowledge like what if you're having trouble with with constipation you've tried all of the if you tried all of these other things and you're still having issues one. Low cost and readily available supplement that I recommend for people is magnesium citrate because it helps with parasitosis of the small intestines so that's the little the little thing the little silly of that line your small intestines. It makes them make waves and it helps you it's it's kind of a gentle way of helping your body be more regular without going to a full on laxative or yes. Yes. Do you have a favorite brand of I like the new tridine or metagenics here they're Minnesota based in you and I both like them so but that's that's one you know magnesium citrate but small dosage start small you can always you can always titrate the medicine up right like that's right because you don't you don't want to have an emerging to need to go to the bathroom but. Well, and that was where I had a friend who was really struggling with constipation and I had her start using the the natural calm. If you're familiar with that and because she was able to throw that in her smoothies and I had her doing like one to two tablespoons a day. And we did that for about two weeks and then all of a sudden she was like I think we reached like max magnesium. She's like because I've been in the bathroom about five times since this morning I was like yep time to back off on that yeah yeah so magnesium can be very magnesium can be very helpful particularly magnesium citrate but be gentle with your dosage and because you don't want to have you don't want to gamble and lose that's right I need to go to the bathroom. Or my other tip is with the magnesium and again the natural calm makes little gummy bites so if people have kids that because the the natural calm. We're not affiliated by the way this is just these are just these are just supplements that we've had success with so yes and it's easy to find. And they actually work and they taste good but it's like the drink one is kind of fizzy and some kids don't like that some adults don't like it. Most kids will do gummies and so I think the dose is like two to three. Give it to them before bed it helps us sleep in the morning they poop yay. All good things all good things for parents of of little stuff. Yes all right awesome thank you so much Brennan these are all really useful tips I feel like we threw a ton of information to a relatively short episode but thank you so much for for joining me and coming on before I let you go I have to I have to let the listeners know. That you have started kettlebell sport training so it is a kettlebell sport podcast also other than general health so how is that going so far how are you how are you liking it. Today is snatch day and I'm going to go do that in my driveway this time by myself. Oh good no kids to watch there will be no kids so Jordan has gotten to see a couple of videos one of which thankfully Ryan was around. To like kid wrangled but you can see our littlest one like pushing his lawnmower like around me as I'm trying to do I don't know what was it doing long cycle yeah you're doing long. No no children were harmed in the making of the video everybody was safe it was it was just funny because all of the sudden I'm like watching your technique and all the sudden there here comes a tiny child pushing and pushing a toy lawnmower you know around around the garage behind her and I'm like oh okay kids are kids are like there's no distractions. No it's you know we were talking and as I said before it's it's so much harder than being a runner or like when I tried to train for some sprint triathlon. Like you can just. There's a difference between trying to run or bike when you're tired and you're like I just have to keep going I just have to keep going like unless you like art to the point where you literally like fall over. Like you just keep going there's something different about having weights and trying to throw them over your head. Like there there it is totally different mentally but it's fun and I don't know what else to say about that it's some it's some form of sadistic fun. It takes a certain personality type but I think I think it's fun and I think people who listen to this podcast I would probably think it's fun and we we suffer for entertainment and enjoyment which makes us weird but you know it's a strong it's a strong crew to be a part of so. Awesome well thank you Brenna I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your expertise with us and I will put links and links in the show notes and we will we will put these tips as well as some of some links out to some of the some of the research and things that support all of the things that we've been throwing out there because we didn't want to add in. A study references while we were talking about all of the things that we were nerding out on so really appreciate really appreciate the time and look forward to having you back for our next science deep dive into whatever the next topic maybe. Awesome thank you Jordan have a good day you too. Thank you for listening to this episode of the platform podcast we'll be back with a new episode soon. Please be sure to leave a rating and review of the platform podcast in your app of choice support our work by supporting our affiliates and of course if you have questions or you want help reaching your goals reach out to me. Till next time thanks for listening.